Would you date someone who was HIV positive?

[IAmThe1AndOnly]

My late BIL and his DP were/are both HIV positive. BIL died five years ago of an unrelated illness, and his DP has been moving forward with his life. TBH I haven’t really seen him since BIL died, but I do have him on FB.

So the other day he posted that he was gutted because he’d met someone he liked, and as soon as he told him about his HIV status the guy had blocked him.

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And the vitriol directed towards this bloke had to be seen to be believed. Everything from calling him all manner of names, to saying he was a bigot, discriminatory, how dare anyone refuse to go out with someone who is HIV positive. Don’t they know that it’s not a death sentence any more? And so on.

I do agree that blocking him seems a bit harsh. After all why not just say that he didn’t want to date someone with HIV.

But doesn’t not wanting to date someone HIV positive just sit within “you can choose not to date someone for any reason you like,” including people with kids for instance?

I didn’t dare add my comment or I have no doubt they would have turned on me as well.

But is it wrong to feel that way?

What on earth are you on about? There aren’t different “groups” of people “to be trusted” or not. There are only people.

where there is stigma and fear around HIV, just like with any other issue, the issue becomes taboo and barriers are created to testing and treatment.

Yes. And I have, as long as meds are
managed it’s really no big deal, I love that in my life time it’s gone from a death sentence to a manageable illness.

So to answer some questions:

As far as I’m aware they had been seeing each other for a while. He hadn’t disclosed any more than that, only that they’d been seeing each other, that things were progressing and so when he told him about his status he was blocked.

In terms of the fb responses, I think it’s possible to sympathise with the fact that someone has been rejected without resorting to name calling of the individual who has the absolute choice whether to or not to have a relationship with someone with HIV.

BIL didn’t die from an HIV related illness, but he suffered serious liver damage because of alcoholism, and it was made very clear that this would have had an impact on the effectiveness of his drugs and his possible immunity. Except he died before that could happen.

Both BIL and his partner have said that the side effects from the drugs are quite significant, so it’s essentially swapping one illness for another iyswim.

I grew up in Africa, and over there, while AIDS was recognised as a gay man’s illness, it was also very strongly recognised that anyone could catch it, and so I was somewhat shocked when I came over here in the early 90’s, and women I knew didn’t feel they had to be careful because “you have to be gay to catch AIDS.”

It is a fact that people do still catch HIV. And the reality is that if you’re in the early stages of dating you have absolutely 0 idea as to whether someone is careful or diligent at taking their drugs or not. I mean we assume that it’s not ok to introduce your kids to a new partner for the first year, so it’s clear that you can’t know someone well enough to know how they treat their status in the early stages.

And for me that would be the key. There are things you would probably trust someone with if you knew them well, but would be a dealbreaker going in, and I think for many HIV would be one of those.

HIV could potentially be a dealbreaker in a relationship if it transpired the partner had become infected after an affair of course, but if it was someone you had a solid relationship or even friendship with, then your feelings on the matter are likely to be different

@onemoremile well that problem will sort itself since they also wouldn’t be getting treated so they could only bury their head in the sand for so long. But the point stands. I think it’s more likely that people know and are being treated and don’t disclose

I should hope you realise that not everyone saying no is saying it through hatred, fear or prejudice.

Yes, I would be fine with someone saying they wouldn't date someone with my disability. It has been said a few times on MN, that I've noticed. It makes life more difficult for DP in many ways and I wouldn't have minded someone saying, from the get go, that they couldn't deal with it.
I don't know if I would have dated someone else with my disability if I'm honest, it would depend on a few factors, but I would really have had to think about it.

That’s the decision of the person to withhold that information and they are the ones spreading it

you can engage in your hopelessly naive , black and white, moralising all you like. The reality is if you promote and egg on fear and stigma about a disease, you create barriers to testing and treatment. Barriers to testing and treatment facilitates spread. Thats how the world works.

So if someone started a thread “would you date a Muslim?” And 90% responded “hell no”, that would be just fine, because they are just “being honest” and “that’s how real people think in the real world”. Cool beans.

Honestly, I'd be very unlikely to date someone with HIV (my husband would probably also object tbh!)

My 80's childhood in a big city in the USA was spent with quite a few men coming to live with us over those years. Their families had rejected them for the disease they had, and many of them died with us as their only family. I've seen up close and personal exactly what happens when AIDS runs its course, and I will carry that with me forever.

It's not a lack of education that keeps me from wanting to date someone with HIV. I know the history, and I know it's very treatable now. I am genuinely thrilled that it is no longer a death sentence.

However, it is still something to be treated seriously, and I'll be honest, it isn't a situation I would want to be in.

I would date someone who was HIV positive, providing they are taking their medication when they should (and why wouldn't they?) I have no chance of getting it. I do think some of the stigma comes from people not knowing a lot about HIV.

But if someone doesn't want to date someone with HIV, then they shouldn't be judged for that it's their choice. Just like I wouldn't date someone who didn't drive, or still lived with their parents. No-one should ever feel forced to date someone if they aren't comfortable.

So would I - I have no idea whether I've 'dated' (ie. had sex with) somebody with HIV anyway, especially given that there are apparently lots of people who don't know they have it.

I would not date somebody with kids, though.

So people who choose to be irresponsible with their health and put others at risk aren’t to blame, it’s actually the fault those of us who wouldn’t date someone with HIV?

If someone doesn’t disclose their status and knowingly infects another person, should it me who’s prosecuted then? Because apparently my personal boundaries are ultimately to blame?

Yeah, no.

@Tandora Out of curiosity, approximately how old are you?

There are a hundred and one reasons why someone might not take their medicine, they might forget, they might be complacent about it, they might be in denial, they might be depressed and not care, they might get bad side effects and want a break from them. There are literally a thousand reasons why people might not/don't take their meds.
I don't think I would take the risk as my trust has been too badly damaged previously to be willing to put my health in someone else's hands. I strongly agree with you though that it's entirely up to an individual who they choose to date or not date for whatever reason. I don't drive but I'm not offended that people might not want to date me because of that!

You are entitled to any personal boundaries around dating you wish. But if you promote / incite fear and stigma about a disease, you are absolutely part of the problem. Hell, yes.

Why?

I dated a man with HIV (I'm female) for some years.

By the time he told me, I was already in love with him, and I wanted to make it work. I was horrified, I knew nothing about medical advances of medication giving untransmittable viral load. I'm old enough to remember the tombstone ads, and thought it was still a death sentence.

To be honest, I had some background level of anxiety throughout the relationship, though I trusted him to take his medication and he had regular checks on his viral load. Would I date someone with HIV again? Maybe, if I was very keen on the person.

“Hell, yes” the hallmark of the cringe middle class liberal.

I haven’t incited fear at all, I simply stated I wouldn’t have a relationship with someone who is HIV+.

So, to be clear, you think a person knowingly infecting another person with HIV bears absolutely no personal responsibility? Bonkers.

Er, no. I wouldn't like relying on someone taking their medication and monitoring their viral load perfectly in order not to contract HIV.

Suppose you do contract it, then the relationship ends badly - you've now got a lifelong disease, have to deal with the side effects from the meds, the stress of taking them perfectly AND have made yourself a less attractive prospect to future partners, all with nothing to show for it!

Well considering I answered the question about religion myself I’d be a hypocrite if I wasn’t ok with others doing it.

And to your point about the barriers, has anyone here said they want to go back to the ‘80s/‘90s fear mongering? Nobody has said that. It was awful. A very close friend worked in the only AIDS hospice in my city back then and those poor people were shunned by everyone and often died alone (outside of the hospice workers/volunteers/priests).

But no I’m not going to hypothetically put myself at risk just so there is no bad PR.

So people who choose to be irresponsible with their health and put others at risk aren’t to blame, it’s actually the fault those of us who wouldn’t date someone with HIV?
If someone doesn’t disclose their status and knowingly infects another person, should it me who’s prosecuted then? Because apparently my personal boundaries are ultimately to blame?

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread. Has anyone stated the person's viral load? Because if they have adhered to anti-retroviral therapy and have no detectable virus in their blood, they cannot infect another person. See web resources on undetectable = untransmittable (U=U) plus the original research studies listed below.

Cohen MS, Chen YQ, Ying Q, et al. (2016) Antiretroviral therapy for the prevention of HIV-1 transmission. New England Journal of Medicine 375, 830-839. https://doi.org/10.1056%2FNEJMoa1600693

Rodger AJ, Cambiano V, Bruun T, et al. (2016) Sexual activity without condoms and risk of HIV transmission in serodifferent couples when the HIV-positive partner is using suppressive antiretroviral therapy. Journal of the American Medical Association 316, 171-181. https://doi.org/10.1001%2Fjama.2016.5148

Bavinton BR, Pinto AN, Phanuphak N, et al. (2018) Viral suppression and HIV transmission serodiscordant male couples: an international, prospective, observational cohort study. The Lancet HIV 5, e438-e447. https://doi.org/10.1016%2FS2352-3018%2818%2930132-2

So, to be clear, you think a person knowingly infecting another person with HIV bears absolutely no personal responsibility

did I say anything to this effect? No. I said promoting fear/ stigma surrounding a disease creates barriers to testing and treatment , which drives spread.

I simply stated I wouldn’t have a relationship with someone who is HIV+

yes this is promoting/ inciting stigma surrounding hiv. It’s totally unnecessary to say, and also quite possibly false.

there are people who have posted here who have dated/ are close to those living with hiv. Perhaps read their posts and have a think , rather than be so quick to make assumptions.

@FatOaf

I think most understand it’s treatable.

It’s this bit that most have a problem with.

Because if they have adhered to anti-retroviral therapy and have no detectable virus in their blood, they cannot infect another person.

In my case that’s too much trust to put on another person.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people who are HIV+ adhere to their medical regimen. Just the same as anyone with a serious condition that could catastrophically damage their health if left untreated.

There is a lot of othering on this thread. I thought we'd left that well behind.

No, because I couldn't guarantee they were taking the medication needed to keep the virus undetectable.

The same as I wouldn't trust the male pill.

I wouldn't block though, that seems fairly brutal.

You are comparing apples with oranges. A man not taking male contraception is not comparable in any way to someone with HIV not adhering to their drug regimen. Think of what the end result of the latter could be...

@IClaudine

You are more optimistic than I am.