Parent taking teenage boy into women's changing room

[JohnnyLuLus]

I need to preface this with this is not about transwomen. This is about parents.

I was swimming with my children today at a leisure club. The gym overlooks the pool.and my teens noticed a boy who looked about their age (13) in the gym. They asked if they could use the gym, but the rules are no under-16s. I explained that the boy was probably older than he looked. All fine. (I was somewhat disgusted by the fact he took off his top to run on the treadmill, but I recognise that's probably my issue).

Anyway, after our.swim my teen boys went off to get changed in the men's changing room, whilst my 11 year old daughter and I went into the ladies.

It's an open-plan changing room - no private space and who should walk in, but the teenage boy and his mother. She kind of ushered him nto the corner and he sat on a bench. I got my daughter to cover up and hurried her along, but she's 11 and autistic so some executive functioning issues, so inevitably was exposed - I stood between her and the boy's line of sight. As I was trying to get her to finish up, the mother came over and said , "is it okay if my little boy walks through". I said "no not really is it, and he shouldn't be in here, he's no little either".
She then said in a defensive voice "Well he's autistic, what am I supposed to do?" and then hurried him.out to the pool.

2/3 of my children are autistic, I get it's hard. But that shouldn't mean a teenage boy is in the open-plan women's changing area. The local leisure centres have family changing.

Being the weekend, the only staff on reception were young weekend staff, but I've left a message for the manager to get back to me tomorrow.

Aibu unreasonable for leaving a message saying we will revoke our membership if they don't make it very clear what their rules are around age limits to the opposite sex changing room?

Posters here are absolutely just saying that disabled people need to go elsewhere.

Yep, although it isn’t surprising- I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been told on mumsnet that I just shouldn’t go to places.

He should be in the changing room for men and boys, and if he needs help his Mum should go in there.

Much better a clothed adult woman in the mens than a changing teen in with unclothed women and girls.

so rude, so combative! so unhelpful

And again: men and boys cobmver 8 should not be in the women's.

I agree.

At no point have I said that this is acceptable.

What I have said is that the ablist and othering attitude on this thread and in real life is also unacceptable.

It’s unacceptable to glibly tell female carers to ‘go in the men’s’, as if they are any less female than you.

Its unacceptable to say disabled people should ‘just go somewhere else’- and not accept that your feminist discourse picks and chooses which women count.

It’s unacceptable to use disparaging and insulting language and rhetoric towards disabled people and their carers to make your point.

It’s unacceptable to put the failings in provision of accessibility onto disabled people and their carers by saying things like ‘they should check ahead’ (of course we fucking do).

ask the staff to block the men's for 15 minutes.

Yes- we ask. And they provide us with some space of their choosing. Men’s/ladies/empty office/corridor/toilet… based on where is quiet and accessible. Not all places have accessible single sex changing so ‘the men’s’ might be impossible for me to get to.

Up against attitudes like this it is no wonder that accessibility is shit and disabled people are fed up and demoralised.

WTF ?
My son is 14 he's completely non verbal., he goes to a special school for children with severe and profound learning disabilities ,he has very limited understanding of the world around him , he's not playing me like a banjo he has bo fucking concept what a banjo is 🙄, he goes on a treadmill every day at his SPECIAL SCHOOL ,
You have no idea.

"Anyone with even half a brain cell and a modicum of logic can clearly see that is bullshit. Your son is playing you like a banjo."

Anyone with even half a brain cell can see you know nothing.

""Anyone with even half a brain cell and a modicum of logic can clearly see that is bullshit. Your son is playing you like a banjo."

Gross and fine motor skills are different.

Some children have difficulties with both.

Some children have difficulties with one.

Running on a treadmill uses gross motor skills.

Getting dressed requires fine motor skills - zips, buttons, tying cords/laces etc.

Getting dressed also requires executive functioning skills - understanding what order to put clothes on, which way round. There may be sensory issues involved such as jumpers over the head.

That is why a child may be able to run on a treadmill but not independently dress.

I'm not getting into the rest of the nonsense written by that poster.

Well it’s a tricky one. My son is severely autistic, he’s 25 and couldn’t go into a changing room on his own or a toilet or anywhere on his own. So now if there isn’t a disabled changing room, I don’t/can’t take him swimming so it really does depend on how autism affects him.

See someone with a mental age of 2 or 3 I would have no issue with even as an adult. But I suppose the problem is if that’s not immediately apparent it still could make women/girls very uneasy.

at the gym I go to it’s mens or women’s. My friends Dd is 12yo (or was when this happened last year) and a boy in her year group at her actual school was frequently in the female changing rooms with his mum. They were challenged about it and the mum said he has autism/special needs and has to be with him. But my friend’s Dd said he’s 100% independent at school. And while I’m aware autism presents differently the girl who is in his class says it’s the first she’s heard about the autism. He might have been 11yo but they were at secondary school. A 12yo girl does not want to get changed in front of her class mates! Especially when he’s sat there on his phone while she’s naked! He could be taking photos (no cubicles). You could say well don’t change if he’s there but sometimes you’re getting changed and these older boys come in. There are frequently boys around that age coming in. Gym has a policy of 8yos and above should be in their sex changing room but it’s not enforced.

YANBU - Austism or not, he was too old to be in the female changing room.

I have a 7 year old autistic son. I'm a single mum but their dad is very involved in their lives. I took the kids swimming recently and noted that once boys reach the age of 8 they are no longer allowed to change in the female changing room.

When we arrived home, I spoke with their dad and said that he'll have to come with us next year when my son is 8 and he'll have to help our son get changed in the mens changing room.

Ex doesnt swim, has a phobia but is willing to come along and help our son.

That’s handy for you.

There are also the physical aspects here to be considered. Young teens going through puberty with pubic hair etc should be allowed to have a same sex environment. You may not want your even younger daughter seeing a young man naked. I know how sensitive girls are with even just other girls.

"See someone with a mental age of 2 or 3 I would have no issue with even as an adult. But I suppose the problem is if that’s not immediately apparent it still could make women/girls very uneasy."

^I think as a parent of a teen with a learning disability, it's REALLY easy to slip into thinking the above. You think to yourself "well, clearly he's not a threat and everyone can see that he has additional needs and needs help" so surely no one will mind?

But this is the type of thing I was talking about on my previous posts. For many women, it might not be a problem. But for a woman from certain religions, it might be a problem. For a woman who has been sexually assaulted it might be a problem. For women who have been subjected to domestic violence, it might be a problem. And so on. Sometimes it's just any male presence that is unacceptable within a space that is supposed to be single sex and safe. Even if there's no actual physical threat.

There are so many different reasons that women rely on single sex spaces. The fact that a male with a severe learning disability doesn't present a physical threat doesn't negate all of the many other valid reasons because some may be psychological/emotional/cultural.

I mentioned in my PP that I have a autistic son who is 14 yrs old, but with a mental age of maybe 6 or 7. I'm also autistic myself. I have to really think carefully about situations to understand the wider issues because it's so easy to assume that it will be OK. It's so easy to think "well, I'd be OK with this" and just forget that other women have different life experiences and may find it unacceptable for a whole host of other valid reasons.

I think "no males in female spaces" is something that just needs to be enforced as a blanket rule. Other than the obvious exceptions of young male children of course!

You’re quite right @SpidersAreShitheads and it’s great that you’re so thoughtful. The real answer is there needs to be better facilities. I know our local leisure centre is a family changing village with individual locking floor to ceiling cubicles. Which is good. Though in an ideal world there would be that and also a female only changing room.

As well as being about protecting female only spaces being just that it’s surely also about dignity for the disabled young person?

they may not understand the situation but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be treated with dignity and be allowed to change in the wrong changing area for them. To me it’s a basic of dignity and respecting the young person to protect their privacy.

by enforcing the female only spaces it is also reinforcing (within the ability of the individual to understand) the importance of respecting the boundaries of women.

See someone with a mental age of 2 or 3 I would have no issue with even as an adult. But I suppose the problem is if that’s not immediately apparent it still could make women/girls very uneasy.

A teenager with a younger mental age still deserves the same privacy and dignity as all teenagers. If they can't understand then someone should act in their best interest.

I have worked with adults with learning disabilities and when going swimming we wouldn't get a male and female service user changed in the same room because even if they don't understand it wouldn't be promoting their dignity.

Not just the boys dignity but also safety- I wouldn’t want my ds in a space with changing women in case someone shouted at him/thought he was staring at them/flashing at them/accused him of something- his movements and gaze are completely erratic.

Its better all round if that situation isn’t created.

If the choice is a) not go or b) bring men or older boys into a female changing room, then a it has to be. We can then write and complain and campaign, but in the meantime it isn't okay to choose b.

Yes, very good points about their dignity as well.

i always think when i see the 11/12 yo boys in the women’s changing rooms at the gym they must be embarrassed as well.

I'm male 55 and I am learning to swim. The council pool has a unisex changing room with individual cubicles including larger family ones. Thankfully I have never seen any females of any ages "bits". You have to take your shoes off in entering and a mother had her daughter aged about 7 with her the other day and made her take her tights off at the shoe changing bench, I have never turned around so fast in my life!

No way at 13 should that boy be in there...the woman is just weird.

Nope, sorry, no teenage boy should ever have access to the female changing rooms.

I am surprised there isn't a disabled space that they could have used instead or a unisex or family space.

I would have reported this to the manager on duty.

A female/ladies changing room is a place where I would never expect to see any teen boys or men to walk in.

Disability does not change that.

You're absolutely right, yes. Facilities are almost universally dire.

I have autistic twin teens, aged 14 and I'm now facing new challenges as they start to get older. In some ways it's actually harder now because when they were young, we could use child facilities without any issues. DD and DS have quite different challenges but both need a hell of a lot of support, DS especially. Neither would be able to use any facilities on their own.

I don't think the wider public realise how dire provisions are for disabled teens/adults who fall into this category. It's not that people don't care, I think people just assume the help/facilities are there. Until you live with it every day, you just don't realise how lacking everything is. I didn't have a clue until I had my DC.

And honestly, it's a case of being on the hoof and trying to come up with solutions when you hit an unexpected problem. I could write a very long list of the barriers we've hit when trying to do the simplest and most basic activities that we thought would be accessible! And definitely there have been many times when I've got things wrong...

I haven't said anywhere that it is. My post before this stated that I go to a different town instead of the local leisure centre now due to this issue. Just that there wouldn't have been an issue at all if there had been provision for disabled people. That is what we should be outraged about.