Parent taking teenage boy into women's changing room

[JohnnyLuLus]

I need to preface this with this is not about transwomen. This is about parents.

I was swimming with my children today at a leisure club. The gym overlooks the pool.and my teens noticed a boy who looked about their age (13) in the gym. They asked if they could use the gym, but the rules are no under-16s. I explained that the boy was probably older than he looked. All fine. (I was somewhat disgusted by the fact he took off his top to run on the treadmill, but I recognise that's probably my issue).

Anyway, after our.swim my teen boys went off to get changed in the men's changing room, whilst my 11 year old daughter and I went into the ladies.

It's an open-plan changing room - no private space and who should walk in, but the teenage boy and his mother. She kind of ushered him nto the corner and he sat on a bench. I got my daughter to cover up and hurried her along, but she's 11 and autistic so some executive functioning issues, so inevitably was exposed - I stood between her and the boy's line of sight. As I was trying to get her to finish up, the mother came over and said , "is it okay if my little boy walks through". I said "no not really is it, and he shouldn't be in here, he's no little either".
She then said in a defensive voice "Well he's autistic, what am I supposed to do?" and then hurried him.out to the pool.

2/3 of my children are autistic, I get it's hard. But that shouldn't mean a teenage boy is in the open-plan women's changing area. The local leisure centres have family changing.

Being the weekend, the only staff on reception were young weekend staff, but I've left a message for the manager to get back to me tomorrow.

Aibu unreasonable for leaving a message saying we will revoke our membership if they don't make it very clear what their rules are around age limits to the opposite sex changing room?

I don't think anyone is saying it isn't difficult for disabled people and their carers but it is not a reasonable adjustment to bring a male into a female facility where there is the potential for every other user to be made to feel uncomfortable.

"I also used to work with ND teenagers up to the ages of 18, all of which were emotionally much younger than their appearance."

But they are still teenagers not young children. My 17 year has a very severe learning disability but he is still has 17 years lived experience and 17 year old hormones and deserves the dignity that goes with his age.

Even if there is SEN present that means someone is mentally a younger age, they're still physically going through puberly, hormones etc and that is what makes their presence in a women's changing room entirely inappropriate.

@Trulyme stated "it's a difficult one" meaning the question posed by the OP and then gave an example of how it was difficult. It's not difficult, as I stated my brother is severely disabled and as he is now a grown man we plan ahead for things like this by ensuring an appropriate space is available for him to change. No way on earth would we ever invade a women's only space with a fully grown male in tow.

You are not all all unreasonable, OP.

According to the ONS, people with a disability are twice as likely to have experienced sexual assault in a given time frame.

Your daughter is vulnerable (age, sex, sen) and one of the ways society mitigates this vulnerability is single sex spaces. Your daughter needs to know the presence of a male body in her changing room is a potential danger. Making her accept the presence of a male body is socialising her that it's ok. This is - and I know there's often misunderstanding of the meaning of this term - similar to grooming (by society, not you, obvs!).

This safeguarding also extends to the vulnerable teenage boy with autism. He needs to know his presence in female single sex spaces is not ok. I have worked with teens with autism who have had these boundaries blurred and situations can get very, very difficult when suddenly they're not a little kid and hormones are buzzing around. I have known autistic teen girls who have almost certainly experienced sexual abuse but who have even less hope than neurotypical women of getting justice. And autistic teen boys who go on to expose themselves to female support workers and touch people non consensually.

Which is not to say I don't feel for the mother. I really, really do. Out society is awful for people with SEN and getting worse, not better. All the focus on "inclusion" seems to have entirely overlooked the people who are continually excluded from society through no fault of their own. All leisure centres should be required to provide suitable, individual, family changing spaces and toilets for people with SEN and those caring for them.

Maybe time to band together and get the club to install a disabled changing place.

In this day and age I just don’t understand why open plan changing rooms are even a thing anymore? I don’t want to get changed in front of ANYONE. Men or women.

Maybe this teen as additional needs too ? If your children have autism they should be able to use the disabled facilities . I do that with my autistic son . If the gym has no disabled separate facilities then for sure you need to complaint .
My son could easily use the gym but would not be to get dressed properly so for the ignorant saying other wise you are wrong

There should always be a manager available when the facility is open.

Don't be so ridiculous.

If (for whatever reason) I needed to take my teenage son into an area where they are not normally expected I would discuss it with the other people using that area, not wait for someone to raise it.

The right for a young girl to be able to get undressed/dressed in privacy away from older males shouldn't be trumped by said older males. If the teenager has additional needs, his needs should never trump the rights of a young girl to her privacy. The mother of the teenager needs to figure out a different way for him to get changed.

That is undoubtedly so.

Even so: an adult 6'4 male has no business EVER being in a women's changing room.

The care of the hypothetical 6'4" male can take him in the men's

If he usable to work out unassisted he can get changed in the men's. He shouldn't be in women's room.

In this situation I'd take my child to a place with family changing facilities if he really couldn't get dressed by himself. Yanbu.

My little boy is 7 and I still take him into toilets and changing rooms if his dad isn't with us. I've just started to feel worried about people judging me for this but the main reason is to protect him from predators as 7 is still little, so I usually give other women a bit of grace when it comes to this sort of thing and thier sons. But a fully blown teenager is just too old.

YANBU. Why does someone's autism trump a teenage girl's right to privacy?

I have a pre-teen son with autism, he can’t use men’s changing rooms or toilets alone and he’s too old to be in a female changing room or toilets. He isn’t comfortable with being in the “wrong” place and it’s completely unfair on women using the facilities to have him in there. If his Dad isn’t with us I have no qualms at all about using the disabled facilities if that’s the only option for him.

The only occasion I’ve ever had a problem was with a pool which put single sex disabled facilities in each changing room - we didn’t go there again. Almost always the disabled toilets or changing areas have been separate.

Your complaint is completely reasonable OP - he’s not a “little boy” and while I sympathise and empathise completely with his mum that it can be very difficult to find an appropriate solution to these issues, her bringing him into a women’s changing room as a teenage male is not an appropriate solution.

He shouldn't be in women changing rooms but imo we need more changing places. ,this would make life so much easier for parents and carers of disabled teens and adults

YANBU for having an issue with a 16 year old boy being in the female changing room but YABU to let your daughter change whilst he was in there. How uncomfortable for her.

I would have wrapped her in a towel over her swimsuit and waited until he left before getting her changed. I wouldn’t have waited for the mum to speak to me, I would have asked her son to leave and said that obviously my daughter cannot change until he has left.

Asking permission once the boy is already there implies that the permission is expected. And it can be seen as "unkind" to refuse it as has been demonstrated on this thread alone. It is not fair to put other women and girls in the situation where they are expected to oblige, may not feel strong enough to say no and will just resort to letting the mother and the boy do what they want, at the expense of their own comfort.
We all know how we have been socialised.
So no, not OK.

Over 8 I can understand but absolutely not under 5/6 😳

I don’t take my son into female spaces either.

But it isn’t as simple as ‘planning ahead’- there are all sorts of reasons why what should be an accessible space suddenly isn’t, leaving disabled people and their carers in difficult situations.

The answer isn’t to take a male into a female space- but neither is it to minimise the impact of shit accessibility on the disabled community (and everyone else- if accessible spaces were plentiful far fewer people would behave like this woman).

I used to me a member of an eye-wateringly expensive gym in Battersea (came with a work package) and even there female lock rooms only had two cubicles, the rest was two open plan areas separated by the lockers. They definitely had the space for remodelling. Not sure about the layout in the men's.
So it's not just the cost issue, it is conscious choice by some gyms too.

She should go in the family changing room!. There is no excuse. I also have a child diagnosed with asd.

Not necessarily- we have no idea how his disability affects him.

Make the point that he shouldn’t be in the female space- you don’t need to be ablist to do it.