Parent taking teenage boy into women's changing room

[JohnnyLuLus]

I need to preface this with this is not about transwomen. This is about parents.

I was swimming with my children today at a leisure club. The gym overlooks the pool.and my teens noticed a boy who looked about their age (13) in the gym. They asked if they could use the gym, but the rules are no under-16s. I explained that the boy was probably older than he looked. All fine. (I was somewhat disgusted by the fact he took off his top to run on the treadmill, but I recognise that's probably my issue).

Anyway, after our.swim my teen boys went off to get changed in the men's changing room, whilst my 11 year old daughter and I went into the ladies.

It's an open-plan changing room - no private space and who should walk in, but the teenage boy and his mother. She kind of ushered him nto the corner and he sat on a bench. I got my daughter to cover up and hurried her along, but she's 11 and autistic so some executive functioning issues, so inevitably was exposed - I stood between her and the boy's line of sight. As I was trying to get her to finish up, the mother came over and said , "is it okay if my little boy walks through". I said "no not really is it, and he shouldn't be in here, he's no little either".
She then said in a defensive voice "Well he's autistic, what am I supposed to do?" and then hurried him.out to the pool.

2/3 of my children are autistic, I get it's hard. But that shouldn't mean a teenage boy is in the open-plan women's changing area. The local leisure centres have family changing.

Being the weekend, the only staff on reception were young weekend staff, but I've left a message for the manager to get back to me tomorrow.

Aibu unreasonable for leaving a message saying we will revoke our membership if they don't make it very clear what their rules are around age limits to the opposite sex changing room?

She asked if it was OK and then got shitty when you said it wasn't? I'd be fucking livid and be straight to reception to make a complaint.

I had this at the weekend when my ds opened the accessible loo door… it opens straight onto the park/playground and I wasn’t finished with my jeans! 🤦‍♀️

I would be happy to trust another woman’s judgement (his mum) that he’s not a danger, but that doesn’t negate the issue of comfort, privacy, and dignity.

Really? So just supposing that he were up to no good, do you believe that a teenage boy would make sure that his mum knew about his true intentions, so that she could spoil his 'fun' and he wouldn't be sly or guarded about it?

In all manner of scenarios, how often do you hear of horrible teenage (usually) boys who have clearly done horrendous violent, thuggish, outrageous things, but their mums defend them as 'loveable rogues' and 'wouldn't hurt a fly', even in the face of wholly incontrovertible evidence to the contrary?

Just what I was thinking

You have taken one part of the Pp post and posted it completely out of context
She was in fact saying men and boys should never be in female changing rooms
But said there maybe reasons why the " mother " got it wrong such as the boy was severely disabled and vulnerable .

It’s not all about him. How long is this going to go on for?!

Probably akin to posters happy to use disabled toilets because it's just, you know, more convenient for them and their DCs 🤷🏽‍♀️

Some people with autism will never be able to look after themselves so maybe the rest of his life,
He still ll shouldn't be in a female changing room though.

I disagree.

I thought that the PP had otherwise very sensible points, but I just wanted to pick up on that one assertion as I understood it.

It wasn't meant as a 'get at' - and apologies if it came across that way - just making the general point that just because a woman may be happy to vouch for her son, that's no guarantee of anything.

This. But she shouldn't have to do that, there should be disabled changing.

Mums are the last people who can be trusted to make that judgment, unfortunately. I don't know at what stage in the conception/gestation/birth process it happens, but at some point objectivity seems to cut out.

I can't believe how many people on here think that it is fine that disabled people are limited to where they can go for leisure. We have exactly the same problem, in that ds1 is at the edge of acceptability for coming into ladies changing rooms, so we have to drive to another town instead of walk to the leisure center close to us. There should be legislation that all venues should have appropriate changing for people with disabilities.

And to those who think that if you can go on a treadmill, you can change out of wet swim clothes and dry yourself, fine and gross motor skills are very different things! It is very possible to be able to do one much better than the other.

Female changing rooms are not for teenage+ males.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with anything you’ve said; there should be appropriate facilities available for all, everywhere.

The issue is that if there aren’t any facilities, they can’t just use the women’s changing rooms instead. Whatever temporary workaround they need to find, it isn’t this.

But there absolutely be suitable spaces for all.

Yes all.venues should provide changing places imo
Mumsnet can be awful.about children/adults with disabilities .

Nobody has said it fine that disabled facilities aren’t provided. It’s anything but fine.

but lack of disabled facilities doesn’t make it acceptable to take a male over the age of about 7 into the female facilities. That is unfair on the women using the facilities and the young person involved.

I don't think anyone has said that though

Of course there should be accessible changing but there will be reasons why this is not always available

It doesn't mean that the female changing is the automatic alternative though

If he was a big boy, mummy should have gone into the men's with him

That's a good point well made

Yes please !

Hi there - I was the PP that made this comment.

I knew it might be a controversial thing to say, but let me just clarify that a bit further.

I totally understand that parents are often the last people to know what their DC get up to, and of course we've all seen parents defending terrible things their kids have done, despite evidence. But I don't think that's the same thing at all really.

In the SEN community, we all rely on each other to make judgements about the safety of our children. Autism and other SEN or learning disabilities present in a myriad of ways. Some children are violent and explosive. Some children tend to "shut down" and go inward. Some children may approach others inappropriately. Some children wouldn't ever in a million years speak to a stranger - and maybe won't even speak to a familiar face either! With no single presentation, we all rely on each other to make the right judgement calls. Some children would be really dangerous in certain settings. Some children can harm others when they're overwhelmed. We rely on each other to make the right choices and to maintain appropriate supervision - because there isn't really any alternative. We have to trust that we all know our children well enough not to put them into situations which would jeopardise other children's safety. There's not a standard approach or one-size-fits-all solution that works in neurotypical settings.

Unlike the rest of society, if you have a SEN teen that requires supervision, they're not getting up to stuff behind your back. You know exactly what they're doing and when. They're not out committing crimes, or assaulting others. Because they're not ever out alone.

So you're right in the sense that normally, a mother wouldn't know whether her adult son could be a sexual predator and regularly assaulting women. But in this very limited set of circumstances, I would trust the mother's judgement - because that's what we do all the time in the SEN community. We have more knowledge of our children and their behaviour because we have to provide supervision around the clock. Plus unlike a regular male entering a female space, the autistic boy isn't going to be left unattended in the female changing rooms either. Unless he was going to make a lunge at one of the females in front of the mother, he doesn't present a safety risk per se.

But the point I was trying to make was that even though he would be accompanied (and I'm happy to trust that she's not deliberately aiding a sexual predator to get his kicks), it doesn't really matter as he still shouldn't be there because the issues are far-ranging and go beyond the simple matter of safety/assaults.

I thought someone might mention safety as the prime concern and I wanted to make the point that even though he might not be someone who's going to assault a female, it's still not OK for all the other reasons that males shouldn't enter female spaces.

I also wanted to make the point that sometimes as a mum who's trying to navigate really awkward situations with a teen SEN boy, sometimes you don't think beyond the obvious. It's really easy to get caught up in the difficulties of your own situation and not consider everything else properly. And that's because there are very few facilities or solutions for older teens with SEN, so you're often having to make decisions on the hoof. It's very easy to get things wrong even when you're trying really hard - especially when you know that your child is still a "little boy" inside. Very easy to forget that the world sees him as the physical man that he is. Very easy to get things wrong.

Sorry for the long and rambly reply, but hopefully that provides a bit more context! Long story short though, we all agree that males of any description shouldn't be in a female-only space because we should always be centring the wide-ranging needs of females in these settings.

YABU but you got the depressing responses you wanted and knew you were going to get.

As you have commented, rather than simply expressed judgement via vote, could you explain why you think the op is unreasonable?

And again: men and boys cobmver 8 should not be in the women's. And if I were OP I would have insisted they leave and ask the staff to block the men's for 15 minutes.

Women carers matter. But they should not be taking males over 8 into womencm's spaces.

That is it.

@Ereyraa @Sirzy @Februaryfeels
Quotes from just the first two pages of this thread.

If this gym doesn't provide a disabled or family changing room then they need to go elsewhere.
Worst case scenario, they may have to find another pool.
His mum needs to take him somewhere with family changing rooms or similar.
If he was able enough to be in the gym, he is able enough to get dressed in the men's or wait outside surely?
They need to go elsewhere if the changing facilities don’t work for them at this place.

People are having a good rant, but not looking at the drivers. One need does not cancel out the other and everybody benefits if we improve. Women and girls get their changing spaces. Families where the care giver and disabled person are opposite genders get to have a dignified space for the disabled person to have equal access. Posters here are absolutely just saying that disabled people need to go elsewhere.

If he was a big boy, mummy should have gone into the men's with him

Because ‘mummy’ isn’t a woman? So she doesn’t need all the protection and dignity that you need?