Parent taking teenage boy into women's changing room

[JohnnyLuLus]

I need to preface this with this is not about transwomen. This is about parents.

I was swimming with my children today at a leisure club. The gym overlooks the pool.and my teens noticed a boy who looked about their age (13) in the gym. They asked if they could use the gym, but the rules are no under-16s. I explained that the boy was probably older than he looked. All fine. (I was somewhat disgusted by the fact he took off his top to run on the treadmill, but I recognise that's probably my issue).

Anyway, after our.swim my teen boys went off to get changed in the men's changing room, whilst my 11 year old daughter and I went into the ladies.

It's an open-plan changing room - no private space and who should walk in, but the teenage boy and his mother. She kind of ushered him nto the corner and he sat on a bench. I got my daughter to cover up and hurried her along, but she's 11 and autistic so some executive functioning issues, so inevitably was exposed - I stood between her and the boy's line of sight. As I was trying to get her to finish up, the mother came over and said , "is it okay if my little boy walks through". I said "no not really is it, and he shouldn't be in here, he's no little either".
She then said in a defensive voice "Well he's autistic, what am I supposed to do?" and then hurried him.out to the pool.

2/3 of my children are autistic, I get it's hard. But that shouldn't mean a teenage boy is in the open-plan women's changing area. The local leisure centres have family changing.

Being the weekend, the only staff on reception were young weekend staff, but I've left a message for the manager to get back to me tomorrow.

Aibu unreasonable for leaving a message saying we will revoke our membership if they don't make it very clear what their rules are around age limits to the opposite sex changing room?

Unisex changing villages put women at risk of assault

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I would have gone over and asked the mother to take the teen boy out of the women's changing rooms. If she'd refused I'd have asked the person at the front desk to ask her to get him out of the women's changing room immediately. It is never acceptable for a male over 7 to be in woman's spaces. I'd be complaining to the manager.

His mother should have taken him to the mens changing room.

Agreed ,,we can all agree that the mother was in the wrong
But I'm finding many comments frustrating and ignorant of just disabling autism can be to some and also how it impacts everyone differently.

The thing in, given that the boy seems to have been in the gym unsupervised, there's no reason his mum couldn't have taken him to get change in the men's, then gotten him to wait somewhere whilst she went into the women's to get herself changed. No one needs to have exposed themselves unnecessarily in this situation.

Many leisure centres and pools now have 'changing villages', rather than single sex changing rooms. To be honest I prefer them - all proper cubicles in varying sizes for individuals or families, no one permitted to walk about naked, plenty of lockers, still have single sex toilets in separate side rooms.
When our local leisure centre changed when we were about 12 we were aghast at the idea, as there'd previously been large single sex communal changing spaces, with about 6 cubicles in each with curtains that didn't close 100%, so we were used to having to get changed on a bench in front of everyone and absolutely didn't want boys around for that, but when we saw what they had done, we were all allotted far more privacy in the 'changing village' due to the set up. It also makes it so easy to preserve privacy and dignity in these types of scenarios. Think lots of leisure centres are now moving that way, and I'm definitely in support, in this day and age I don't feel like communal changing (eg non-cubicals) should be a thing for swimming baths.

Important to speak up, especially where mothers can only see their adolescent sons as 'little boys'. Infantilising attitudes can be harmful.

Another great reason for third space.

I went to an art exhibition in a synagogue and was really impressed to see ladies, gents and mixed space provided, each one with a changing places facilities. Somewhere for everyone.

If the boy can't get changed without mummy's assistance, surely getting changed at home is the best option?

Important to speak up, especially where mothers can only see their adolescent sons as 'little boys'. Infantilising attitudes can be harmful.

When I was a child, I used to love the regular 'Mummy's Boy' comic strip in Buster comic - about an overprotective mum who dressed her 'little' boy up in baby clothes and a frilly bonnet and pushed him around everywhere in a pram, calling him 'Choochikins', even though he was probably about 13!

I found it hilarious, because it was so obviously absurd and would clearly never happen in real life. Nowadays, I'm not so sure...

Our local leisure centre has a policy of from age 8 they have to be in their own sex changing rooms. There is a family changing room with one small cubicle, which is always in use or locked because someone pooped in it. No showers and it is also on the men’s side and the men have to walk through it to get to their changing room.

There is a disabled girl who needs at least two carers to change her and she has to use the family room and I always feel that she has no privacy at all.

For me, DS1 9, has sensory processing disorder and fine motor issues and has to shower in the men’s which takes forever with varying success. I often wait outside the men’s worried if he is ok but I wouldn’t at that age take him into the women’s as his individual need doesn’t trump all the mums and daughters right to a safe space.

Did you get a call back from the manager OP?

YANBU at all.

And if this boy was capable enough to use the gym equipment alone, he was capable enough to change alone, surely?

My 10 yo has ADHD but doesn’t mean I take him into women’s changing rooms - we wait for the one and only accessible/ family changing room (it is billed as both), we don’t just charge into the first women’s. Or he just has to change in the men’s.

I agree a changing village option is a good idea

Actually, legally that seems to be an ambiguous issue.

The case law I know of relates to toilets rather than changing rooms, but it holds that men are as legally entitled to not have a woman in their space as women are not to have a man in theirs.

Not to mention the flippant tone of ‘well THAT woman can just go in the men’s (because they have a disabled son/husband/brother they have to care for)-

female carers are still women, they are just as entitled not to have to change in front of men as any other woman and should not be treated as collateral in these situations.

Yes- males should never be in a woman’s changing room past 7/8 or whatever the venue has decided- but a passing nod to the fact that venues failing to provide accessibility is yet again disproportionately affecting women (since, let’s face it, it’s mostly women who have caring responsibilities) and our ability to move through the world would be good.

There is no need to take him into a female only area.

Unfortunately some women are so shortsighted that they’re creating the next generation of entitled men who don’t respect women’s spaces and think they can do whatever the hell they want because mummy said her ickle prince can 🙄

I am sorry but I totally disagree. If you can't use the family changing rooms then don't go swimming. Why should an autistic child's wants trump another autistic child's needs.

The thing that people also seem to forget is that it's not just the females we're trying to safeguard. Should this teenager be expected to get undressed in front of women/ girls? If you asked an NT teenage boy to do that he'd rightly say no as he'd not want to get undressed in front of women. Boys with additional needs have exactly the same right to dignity even if they're not able to articulate it.

It's shit that there are not the facilities for everyone at every leisure centre and this needs to change. While that isn't happening people need to choose the place where they can access without compromising single sex spaces.

My DD does swimming lessons at a school, there is a female changing room and a 'unisex' one. Open plan changing room with about 2 cubicles. Regularly have dads bringing their daughters in, older boys in there. Friends DD has asked to stop going as they are uncomfortable showering/changing. When asking the venue they say there's no policy, it's just whatever you're comfortable doing. No concern for how comfortable the girls/females are!

I have campaigned for years for women's rights. I will join in any campaign for rights for others. But women and girls come first for me. I will never apologize for that.

If you are a carer for a 6'4" male and you want to go out where changing facilities are needed - you need to check in advance. A PITA but a fact of life. It shouldn't be such a fight and I'm happy to support campaigns.

Again: women and girls deserve single sex spaces. Everyone deserves privacy & dignity which is why I suggest taking boys (as in the OP) into the men's with tongue in cheek. Or en masse as a protest (with warning). If men would be inconvenienced there would be a faster, better response.

So just because yours are ok to go in the men's that doesn't mean he is. My DS is 22 and he still can't go in the men's alone. Our local swimming pool does have family changing though so I take him in there if the disabled change is being used.

Another local Gym only has male and female changing. There is a disabled change but you have to enter the male or female changing to access it. It's in the middle of both changing rooms so can be accessed from either side. But I can't send him into the men's alone and expect that he will know to go into the disabled change and I access from the female changing. So for that reason I can only take my DD to that gym who also has severe autism ADHD and non verbal.

The child had autism it it is a huge spectrum i wouldn't take my son into a female changing room
But I can't leave him because although he's 14 cognitively he's around 2/3 I don't think he's my " ickle prince"
He's severely disabled and incredibly vulnerable ,we have no way of knowing how this boys autism impacts him.

I actually meant to press 6, but perhaps it should be no one above KS1 age?

But women and girls come first for me. I will never apologize for that.

Female carers ARE women. Any ‘campaign’ for women’s rights should to include ALL women, not just women that don’t pose inconvenient complications.

If more people outside the disabled community actively supported women within it, these situations would be fewer.

If you are a carer for a 6'4" male and you want to go out where changing facilities are needed - you need to check in advance

Obviously- but that doesn’t actually mean that the facilities venues say they have will always actually be available. Quite often there is one space accessible to my family- if it suddenly becomes unusable while we are there, it is extremely difficult for us.

Thats not to say that it would be ok for me to take ds into the women’s- but it really isn’t as simple as ‘just checking before we go’.

People seem lack awareness of protected characteristics, and that one does not trump another. Disability doesn’t trump sex, religious beliefs, age etc.

There are some spiteful, sneery comments on this thread.

No, he shouldn’t have been in the changing room. End of story. The reason we don’t want males in our changing rooms isn’t just about safety, it’s dignity/privacy too.

I would be happy to trust another woman’s judgement (his mum) that he’s not a danger, but that doesn’t negate the issue of comfort, privacy, and dignity.

So it’s still a hard no.

Being able to run on a treadmill - with **shock his shirt off - doesn’t mean he can dress/shower/navigate changing rooms alone.

But he still shouldn’t have been in there.

He needs to use family/disabled changing areas that aren’t part of the female changing area.

Women need single sex spaces for many, many reasons - and that might include religion or trauma. Being suddenly confronted with a male body In what should be a safe space is not ok.

Having said all of the above, I feel sorry for his mum. She made the wrong decision here but it’s not easy parenting an older autistic person that still needs a fair bit of supervision/care.

I have a 14 yr old DS who is physically mature. He’s autistic. He sits on my lap like a 7 yr old and asks me for assurances that he’s being a good boy. He’s so very young in his outlook. He loves Hey Duggee and Ninjago and Bluey. He’s still in nappies/pullups.

At a local public park, he’s just had a go on outdoor exercise equipment. Turns out he loves it! He couldn’t do a treadmill or a bike because of co -ordination problems but he loves the machines. I’m currently trying to find a suitable gym where I can try angain to teach him to swim too. Obviously needs family changing facilities.

It’s really really hard when your big gangly teen in still mentally “a little boy”. They can’t play on the things they like any more (soft play or kiddie play parks). There is very little suitable when their inner development doesn’t match their physical form. It’s heartbreaking for them.

The mum got it wrong taking him into the changing rooms. In her mind she was probably thinking of safety rather than the wider picture. Completely fair to raise it with the centre management so it doesn’t happen again.

But try and cut her a bit of slack maybe. It’s not easy, and there’s very little out there for our kids who need help. Oh and excuse while I just laugh hollowly about “carers”. Because that would be me. The available support is non-existent. She got this one wrong but when you’re trying to figure things out on your own, it’s not difficult to make the wrong decision. Hopefully she’ll be thinking it through now and realise it was the wrong call.

Im sorry this happened and I hope your DD wasn’t too shocked OP. Males always need to stay out of our spaces.

This is what they have at Butlins. All the cubicles are big enough for families though. Just have to make sure kids don't open the door. As my DS did and someone got flashed at my bare backside.🤣🤣🤣