Page 16 | Son has changed his mind about class party - doesn't want to go

VeryBusyDoingNothing · 2024-05-12T07:55:38+00:00

Wwyd. Came out with an invitation weeks ago and he said he wanted to. Announced now he doesn't know the child very well and he doesn't want to go. Turns out none of his close friends are going either. Feel rude not going but feel I can't force him?

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:23

WhatNoRaisins · 22/05/2024 19:12

Does that "it's ok to let people down" philosophy also consider the natural consequences of doing so?

I guess what I’m trying to say is not that other people’s feelings don’t matter in these cases, but that the learning should perhaps be on that side. People should learn not to be upset and offended if somebody doesn’t feel up to going to their event. There are so many reasons why someone might not feel up to it, even if they previously agreed to go.

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:24

.

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:25

bananaramaterry · 22/05/2024 18:55

🙄

Let's hope it's your child let down, so they understand that hurt.

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Gosh you are a nasty person, wishing ill of a four year old kid , because his mum has offended you. 🤮

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:27

ItDoesntHaveToBeDave · 22/05/2024 18:45

"Strangers" - exactly.

Not people who are meant to be friends, people who have spent money on a party, people who are excitedly waiting for other kids to arrive at their party.

"Strangers" who you will not ever meet, who write on an anonymous forum that you can switch off from anytime.

Can you REALLY not see how daft your comment was @Vics12345 😂

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Nope

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:50

MrsAvocet · 22/05/2024 18:19

Where do you draw the line with that though? Is there an age at which letting people down becomes unacceptable or a level at which which things are too important to let people down over? Who decides that and how are children who have been brought up to believe that their feelings are paramount meant to understand the transition? Or is it ok to carry this attitude into adulthood?
The whole "people have to be more understanding and accepting of each other" thing sounds like it is rather one way in this model of behaviour. It's ok to let people down even if it makes them sad or angry but they are supposed to be tolerant and understanding of your feelings and behaviour? 🤔
There might be short term benefit to always putting yourself first but I can't help but think that with time if you treat other people as if they and their feelings are inconsequential then they're likely to reciprocate. That's probably not ideal for anyone's mental health.
You didn't answer my question earlier. When my DC were moaning about having to go to their grandparents' "boring" Golden Wedding Anniversary party, should I have allowed them to let down two people who love them very much and really wanted their presence on a once in a lifetime occasion? Do you really think that standard of behaviour is ok?

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I think you have to decide where the line is. With a party for a six year old where the kid won’t be missed and the only concern is making the hostess angry (not because her kid is bothered, but because the host is angry - and this is more about the method of dropping out rather than the fact that they dropped out), then it’s pretty clear. Equally if it’s an adult and an event that you won’t be missed at, then a gracious apology is fine, in my opinion. If it’s something you will be missed at then it depends, you have to weigh up the cost on both sides, how much upset will it cause them and how much you. I think if it’s just a social gathering with more than say 6 people then it shouldn’t matter. As for kids not wanting to go because they will be bored or don’t want to wear certain shoes, maybe don’t make them wear the shoes? That’s more social rules, but let’s not go there… :) Also we never said anything about kids being brought up to believe their feelings are paramount or that others don’t matter. There are plenty of areas of life to teach caring for others. But we are talking about whether or not to force kids to go to parties, in particular ones where the kids won’t be missed.

MrsAvocet · 22/05/2024 20:13

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:50

I think you have to decide where the line is. With a party for a six year old where the kid won’t be missed and the only concern is making the hostess angry (not because her kid is bothered, but because the host is angry - and this is more about the method of dropping out rather than the fact that they dropped out), then it’s pretty clear. Equally if it’s an adult and an event that you won’t be missed at, then a gracious apology is fine, in my opinion. If it’s something you will be missed at then it depends, you have to weigh up the cost on both sides, how much upset will it cause them and how much you. I think if it’s just a social gathering with more than say 6 people then it shouldn’t matter. As for kids not wanting to go because they will be bored or don’t want to wear certain shoes, maybe don’t make them wear the shoes? That’s more social rules, but let’s not go there… :) Also we never said anything about kids being brought up to believe their feelings are paramount or that others don’t matter. There are plenty of areas of life to teach caring for others. But we are talking about whether or not to force kids to go to parties, in particular ones where the kids won’t be missed.

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No, you broadened the conversation when you said
"I actually bought a kids book recently called „I can say no“, it teaches kids that’s it’s ok to say no, it’s ok to change their minds and it’s ok to let people down, even if it makes them cry or makes them angry. People have to be more accepting and understanding of each other."
That sounds pretty much like teaching a child that their own feelings are more important than anyone else's to me.
Anyway, the proof of the pudding as they say is in the eating and as my children are now all well adjusted, considerate adults I'm pretty sure that making them go to the odd social occasion that they didn't fancy when they were younger hasn't caused too much damage.
(Incidentally, I consider wearing shoes outdoors to be more of a health and safety issue than a "social rule.")

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 20:32

MrsAvocet · 22/05/2024 20:13

No, you broadened the conversation when you said
"I actually bought a kids book recently called „I can say no“, it teaches kids that’s it’s ok to say no, it’s ok to change their minds and it’s ok to let people down, even if it makes them cry or makes them angry. People have to be more accepting and understanding of each other."
That sounds pretty much like teaching a child that their own feelings are more important than anyone else's to me.
Anyway, the proof of the pudding as they say is in the eating and as my children are now all well adjusted, considerate adults I'm pretty sure that making them go to the odd social occasion that they didn't fancy when they were younger hasn't caused too much damage.
(Incidentally, I consider wearing shoes outdoors to be more of a health and safety issue than a "social rule.")

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I think the book is about teaching kids not to be manipulated by the emotions of others, which is a hugely important lesson for kids (and adults) to learn. The examples are, one kids wants to copy in a test and gets angry when the character says no, it’s ok to let him down. Another wants him to play out, but the character says no I’m tired, and the other kid cries, it’s ok to let him down. Obviously everything is context dependent. And as for the shoes, as I wrote “special” shoes, I obviously assumed your kid was upset about having to wear particular shoes, not about having to wear shoes in general.

bananaramaterry · 22/05/2024 20:32

@Vics12345 again let's see how you feel when your child is let down...... you may well feel differently.

Suppose you've arranged an expensive day out for a few chosen friends and paid for them to go to a theme park.....

Ok if the friends cancel?

bananaramaterry · 22/05/2024 21:10

@Vics12345 does the book cover saying you've said yes, agreeing to go and then letting a friend down, not because you're sick, but because you "just don't fancy it anymore"?

SoreAndTired1 · 22/05/2024 22:25

This is why imo it is batshit crazy to invite the whole f'cken class. When did this become a thing. The only time it happened, when I was a kid, it was because the girl's parents won the lottery so they invited the whole class to a birthday party for her, a whole class sleep-over and nice breakfast spread the next morning - a few months before they left the area.

When I was a kid, you only had your besties there, and maybe a neighbourhood kid or two you were friends with and any family/parents friends. Not the whole fricken class! That's just asking for trouble. Keep it simple. Keep it to your child's best friends that you know will come. And will your child really care if someone from class they barely even speak to or has barely exchanged two words with doesn't show up? Doubtful.

Hateliars34 · 22/05/2024 22:34

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 15:26

I’ve never cancelled after accepting an invitation FYI, so you don’t need to call me or my child rude because of your opinions on that. But I stick to mine. My kid has just turned four. But I can’t imagine ever forcing him to go to social event that he doesn’t want to go to. How awful!

At that age they don't always know what they want and will have a tantrum about going someplace, then love it when they're there.

My zoo example still stands - if YOU bought yourself and your child zoo tickets, then your c,hild doesn't want to go on the day because they decide they are scared of most of the animals and aren't feeling brave anymore, do you just say that's fine, shame we spent £100 on tickets?!?

A party usually only lasts 2 hrs so hardly a huge effort, plus kids who don't want to go on the day likely enjoy it while they are there.

My 4 year old begged me to sign her up for ballet, I did and first lesson she was all excited until she realized she didn't know any of the kids in the class. Second lesson she didn't want to go but we'd paid and made a commitment so I made her go. She made a friend and enjoyed herself. It's a great life lesson to do something you don't necessarily want to, and make the most of it, for yourself as well as for others.

MrsAvocet · 22/05/2024 22:54

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 20:32

I think the book is about teaching kids not to be manipulated by the emotions of others, which is a hugely important lesson for kids (and adults) to learn. The examples are, one kids wants to copy in a test and gets angry when the character says no, it’s ok to let him down. Another wants him to play out, but the character says no I’m tired, and the other kid cries, it’s ok to let him down. Obviously everything is context dependent. And as for the shoes, as I wrote “special” shoes, I obviously assumed your kid was upset about having to wear particular shoes, not about having to wear shoes in general.

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Oh come on, neither of those examples say that it's ok to let people down. The first one sounds like it's about not being pressured into something you know is wrong and the second one is about maintaining your own boundaries. Nobody rational is likely to disagree with those examples.
I don't think either of those scenarios is letting someone down and neither is remotely comparable with having committed to something and then dropping out at the last minute. The second example is analagous to receiving an invitation to a party and declining it which everyone on this thread has said is perfectly reasonable.The character hasn't let the other kid down because he never agreed to anything in the first place. If the story had been that the character had agreed to play out with the kid, arranged to meet him somewhere at a specific time and then not turned up because he fancied watching tv instead it would be more comparable to accepting an invitation then being a no show, and that is letting someone down.* *
Obviously I haven't read the book and maybe there is an example like that, but I don't think either of the stories you quote support your apparent views on it being ok to drop out of things you've already committed to for no particular reason

Tandora · 23/05/2024 09:00

Vics12345 · 22/05/2024 19:50

I think you have to decide where the line is. With a party for a six year old where the kid won’t be missed and the only concern is making the hostess angry (not because her kid is bothered, but because the host is angry - and this is more about the method of dropping out rather than the fact that they dropped out), then it’s pretty clear. Equally if it’s an adult and an event that you won’t be missed at, then a gracious apology is fine, in my opinion. If it’s something you will be missed at then it depends, you have to weigh up the cost on both sides, how much upset will it cause them and how much you. I think if it’s just a social gathering with more than say 6 people then it shouldn’t matter. As for kids not wanting to go because they will be bored or don’t want to wear certain shoes, maybe don’t make them wear the shoes? That’s more social rules, but let’s not go there… :) Also we never said anything about kids being brought up to believe their feelings are paramount or that others don’t matter. There are plenty of areas of life to teach caring for others. But we are talking about whether or not to force kids to go to parties, in particular ones where the kids won’t be missed.

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I think if it’s just a social gathering with more than say 6 people then it shouldn’t matter

Omg people with this attitude make the worst friends/ guests. I can’t stand this mentality. So selfish and entitled. If you commit to something, you go unless there are genuine reasons you can’t (eg sickness). People have spent time, (often) money, thought, effort to include you in an event. They are expecting you. It’s NOT ok to let them down at the last minute just because you feel like it and you’ve decided you won’t be missed. Equally, they cannot just decide to disinvite you at the last minute just because they don’t feel like hosting on the day.

MrsAvocet · 23/05/2024 12:28

Equally, they cannot just decide to disinvite you at the last minute just because they don’t feel like hosting on the day.
That's a really good point. Imagine the reverse scenario...
Oh, hi Mary's Mum, sorry, she can't come in, she's not invited to the party any more.
Yes, I know we sent you an invitation and you replied in good time but things change you know. Jane decided this morning that she doesn't want Mary at her birthday party any more.
Well she's only 6...she's changed her mind. You know what kids are like! She's a bit overwhelmed with it all.
What do you mean we shouldn't have invited her if we didn't want her to come? You can't expect a 6 year old to stick with a guest list she agreed 3 weeks ago!
No, I don't believe in making her do things that she doesn't want to do even if it upsets other people. You'll have to leave.
Yeah, I know you've bought a present but it's probably not a lot of money and you shouldn't really expect to be allowed in to every party you get invited to. You should just factor these things into your budget when you're dealing with young children. It's your problem if you bought an expensive present, nothing to do with me.
Mary will be invited to lots of parties and she'll probably be allowed into most of them so what does it matter if she can't join in this one?
Can you imagine the outrage if the host treated their guests like that?

Bushmillsbabe · 23/05/2024 19:18

SoreAndTired1 · 22/05/2024 22:25

This is why imo it is batshit crazy to invite the whole f'cken class. When did this become a thing. The only time it happened, when I was a kid, it was because the girl's parents won the lottery so they invited the whole class to a birthday party for her, a whole class sleep-over and nice breakfast spread the next morning - a few months before they left the area.

When I was a kid, you only had your besties there, and maybe a neighbourhood kid or two you were friends with and any family/parents friends. Not the whole fricken class! That's just asking for trouble. Keep it simple. Keep it to your child's best friends that you know will come. And will your child really care if someone from class they barely even speak to or has barely exchanged two words with doesn't show up? Doubtful.

Edited

Why is it batshit crazy to invite 20 children to a village hall? She plays with at least 14 of them as very sociable, 3 have SEN and never get invited to any of the class children's parties which i felt was really sad. And at 17 I couldn't exactly leave the last 3 out could I, that would be mean. And the bouncy castle and face painter cost the same whether I had 10 or 20 children, so why not invite 20. Its the only time we will do a whole class party, and it was fantastic.

bananaramaterry · 23/05/2024 20:36

MrsAvocet · 23/05/2024 12:28

Equally, they cannot just decide to disinvite you at the last minute just because they don’t feel like hosting on the day.
That's a really good point. Imagine the reverse scenario...
Oh, hi Mary's Mum, sorry, she can't come in, she's not invited to the party any more.
Yes, I know we sent you an invitation and you replied in good time but things change you know. Jane decided this morning that she doesn't want Mary at her birthday party any more.
Well she's only 6...she's changed her mind. You know what kids are like! She's a bit overwhelmed with it all.
What do you mean we shouldn't have invited her if we didn't want her to come? You can't expect a 6 year old to stick with a guest list she agreed 3 weeks ago!
No, I don't believe in making her do things that she doesn't want to do even if it upsets other people. You'll have to leave.
Yeah, I know you've bought a present but it's probably not a lot of money and you shouldn't really expect to be allowed in to every party you get invited to. You should just factor these things into your budget when you're dealing with young children. It's your problem if you bought an expensive present, nothing to do with me.
Mary will be invited to lots of parties and she'll probably be allowed into most of them so what does it matter if she can't join in this one?
Can you imagine the outrage if the host treated their guests like that?

Exactly ... imagine this scenario!

It would be carnage, you would be the worse person in the world ever!!

I especially like the you bought an expensive present, that's on you! Brilliant!

SoreAndTired1 · 24/05/2024 03:55

Bushmillsbabe · 23/05/2024 19:18

Why is it batshit crazy to invite 20 children to a village hall? She plays with at least 14 of them as very sociable, 3 have SEN and never get invited to any of the class children's parties which i felt was really sad. And at 17 I couldn't exactly leave the last 3 out could I, that would be mean. And the bouncy castle and face painter cost the same whether I had 10 or 20 children, so why not invite 20. Its the only time we will do a whole class party, and it was fantastic.

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Why hire a village hall just for a kid's birthday party? Most people I know have it in their backyard or house.

Lamelie · 24/05/2024 07:10

SoreAndTired1 · 24/05/2024 03:55

Why hire a village hall just for a kid's birthday party? Most people I know have it in their backyard or house.

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Is it really beyond your imagination that some people don’t have a bank yard or home that can accommodate extras.
Good grief.

Bushmillsbabe · 24/05/2024 07:47

SoreAndTired1 · 24/05/2024 03:55

Why hire a village hall just for a kid's birthday party? Most people I know have it in their backyard or house.

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And most people I know have it in the village hall or a venue. We are in uk where not many have huge gardens. Out of about 30 childrens parties my 2 have been too, only 2 had it at home (same child 2 different years). About 10-15 at the hall and rest at a venue like the bowling alley,cinema or trampoline park. I get the hall for free anyway as I volunteer with our local girlguiding group.

Birthday parties are a big deal for both my girls as they have loads of friends, and prefer a big party they will always remember over a present which will grown out of quickly.

SoreAndTired1 · 24/05/2024 07:48

Lamelie · 24/05/2024 07:10

Is it really beyond your imagination that some people don’t have a bank yard or home that can accommodate extras.
Good grief.

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That's why people usually only invite numbers they can accomodate in their house. Rather than hiring out an entire hall. Who does that? I mean, I can understand if it's a major birthday like 13th, or 18th or 21st. Something like that.

Samlewis96 · 24/05/2024 07:56

inappropriateraspberry · 12/05/2024 10:18

He can socialise with all these same children at school. Forcing a child to do something they really don't is not helpful. It isn't a must like brushing their teeth or doing homework. It's a party!

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Then don't accept invitations if the kid is flaky about attending stuff. After declining a few then they will stop coming so issue ended and no need to make social efforts

Samlewis96 · 24/05/2024 07:57

SoreAndTired1 · 24/05/2024 03:55

Why hire a village hall just for a kid's birthday party? Most people I know have it in their backyard or house.

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Lol. I live in a 2 bed flat and my DS has his birthday in NOVEMBER!!!! Not a great time of year for outdoors parties

Hateliars34 · 24/05/2024 07:57

SoreAndTired1 · 24/05/2024 03:55

Why hire a village hall just for a kid's birthday party? Most people I know have it in their backyard or house.

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This is really common where I live. When my DD was 3, she started getting invitations to loads of village hall parties and soft play parties. Houses are small where we live so it's fairly unusual for people to host parties there. We've only ever been invited to 1 house party versus around 15 village hall/soft play/trampoline Park parties.

I'm guessing you're older or from a very affluent area where people have large houses with enough space to accommodate a lot of guests (especially since parents stay for the duration of parties nowadays).

Bushmillsbabe · 24/05/2024 08:02

Hateliars34 · 24/05/2024 07:57

This is really common where I live. When my DD was 3, she started getting invitations to loads of village hall parties and soft play parties. Houses are small where we live so it's fairly unusual for people to host parties there. We've only ever been invited to 1 house party versus around 15 village hall/soft play/trampoline Park parties.

I'm guessing you're older or from a very affluent area where people have large houses with enough space to accommodate a lot of guests (especially since parents stay for the duration of parties nowadays).

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This! We invited 20 children, but with siblings and parents we had at least 40. Plus our girls grandparents. At a young age of 5/6 the parebts will usually stay. Partly to reassure any anxious children, and partly as a social opportunity for the parents to get to know each other. We had fantastic weather for our recent party, a hall and bouncy castle for whole day, and many families stayed for 4-5 hours rather than the original 2 intended, which was lovely.

WhatNoRaisins · 24/05/2024 08:13

Even my parents who weren't that well off forked out for hall rentals and soft play packages back in the 90s. This isn't some new modern trend.