To hate this current trend that girls should be raised to be fierce and fiery but boys shouldn't??

[Voodoohoodoyoudo]

Now I'm not saying one gender is better than the other. But as a mother of sons I feel worried for their future because it seems this notion is currently being pushed that girls can get away with being drama queens but boys need to keep their feelings to themselves and pander to them or they might grow up to be abusive men? What happened to equal rights? I don't condone violence of any sort but this is totally unfair that boys shouldn't be able to do what girls do in terms of sticking up for themselves.

@Pelham678 ,

‘Actually there’s possibly a good reason for prioritising female medics!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/30/female-surgeons-patient-outcomes-better-studies

I’m being a bit tongue in cheek here. But there are still more male doctors than female doctors and definitely more male doctors in specialist hospital roles, so men are not being discriminated against. ‘

I did want to reply to this as it is so wrong in so many ways (I know you said ‘a bit tongue in cheek’). Looking at the demographic at higher levels in a profession is like looking back in time. Males dominate at the very top because they were privileged in their education (in the 80s and 90s) and at the early stages of their career. It is absolutely not evidence that young men are not being discriminated against in the early stages of their medical education and career.

In addition, having taught boys and girls for the last ten years, I can very much see why female surgeons might on average be better. Men are far more likely to go for the glory and ‘risk it for a biscuit’, whereas women will be more careful and measured.

However, the flip side of this is higher level STEM subjects, where boys and men still substantially dominate and outperform girls and women. I have spent a large amount of my teaching career trying to get more girls to pursue STEM, work out why the boys were outperforming (not at GCSE and A level, but Oxbridge entry and similar) and help the girls overcome the obstacles so that they could match the boys. The idea that I would just say ‘boys are better’ so maybe we should prioritise them (even tongue in cheek) is just not acceptable to me.

The worst discrimination in education these days is that in areas where girls outperform teachers just accept ‘oh well, girls are better’ and, in the few areas boys still dominate lots of time and money is spent in fixing the problem.

The reason industries like STEM are now targeting females though is because the levels of inequality have been so big for so long. The fact things are still being targeted shows in itself that inequality is still there.

targeted interventions take place to bridge gaps not to give a head start.

Are you ever “a bit tongue in cheek” about racism or homophobia? Do you feel the need to point out that it not so bad for people with those or other protected characteristics can avoid some of the more devastating prejudice if they are privileged in other ways? @Newbutoldfather ypu sound utterly clueless.

@TomeTome ,

’Newbutoldfather ypu sound utterly clueless.’

Are you hard of reading, or do you really not know how quotation marks work?

These are speech marks “ “
I think you used apostrophes.

Has there been a decline in the "be kind" tat that was being marketed heavily at little girls until at least very recently? (I haven't been paying close attention.) That stuff doesn't fit with what OP is saying at all. But I could imagine a rise in teaching girls to be assertive as a pushback against all that.

I expect I was really responding to this bit of nonsense

I just don’t accept that. I think there is a massive degree of intersectionality about male privilege. Amongst the MN demographic in the UK, I doubt there is much if any. As a class, globally, and across education, income and age brackets, of course male privilege still exists. For the younger middle and upper classes in the uk, not so much and, in many areas, females are privileged. At school, females enjoy privilege, ‘contextual’ offers for STEM degrees, higher income for the first few years of work etc etc.

which really makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

@TomeTome ,

They are single quotation marks, as recommended by Harvard referencing:
‘Short quotationsShort quotations (fewer than 30 words) should:

• be incorporated into your sentence without disrupting the flow of your paragraph,
• have single quotation marks,
• have the full stop after the citation, and,
• keep the same font size.’

It was also obvious from context.

Ah we're adding 'vile' and 'psycho' to the list now - Is that you Andrew tate

That’s interesting @Newbutoldfather .

Would you like to explain how contextual offers are not to rebalance an unfair playing field but actually a “privilege”? Do you feel the same about all contextual offers or is it just female disadvantaged you are a bit blind to and need convincing of?

More random anecdata about the pyscho women OP keeps encountering.

@TomeTome ,

I believe in contextual offers where they actually are effective. For instance, if you genuinely are the first in your family to university, you go to a school which can’t teach you for Oxbridge and you can’t afford tutoring, then a contextual offer makes sense.

If you come from a disadvantaged ‘class’ but have every other privilege (private school, tutoring, encouragement since you were young) then I don’t really see how your lack of ‘privilege’ has not become a privilege.

Of course, this isn’t entirely black and white. When I went to Cambridge there was a 3:1 boy/girl ratio and trying to encourage girls in was sensible. But now the ratio is better than 1:1 in favour of girls, so do you know go on a micro level into individual subjects and, if you do, how long do you persevere for? And, at what point do you start giving boys contextual offers in subjects like medicine?

I think we need to look at actual evidence and research, not just rely on the language of class and privilege.

What else am I supposed to say?
I didn't go to uni!

Girls are

drama queens
whiny spoiled princesses
vile
psychos

And you still don't think you are a misogynist?

Money and class can insulate you against some aspects of sexism but it’s ludicrous to suggest that it levels the playing field in any real way. If it did it wouldn’t be remarkable to see all female board of directors or consultants or judges, or whatever would it? Engineering faculties are not full of posh white women are they? Wake up.

It's not biased nor narrow minded to acknowledge the reality of male privilege and your sons will have it throughout their lives.

Of course that doesn't make it OK to treat children differently, but ultimately, your sons are not at a disadvantage in life by virtue of their sex, whereas girls are and probably always will be on the back foot.

But on here when men are being slagged off they are

Cunts
Arseholes
Twats
Wankers

Etc etc.

How can you not see the double standards?

Just recently women surgeons or perhaps residents complained about being groped in operating rooms by their male superiors. It was widely reported.
But in the mythical world that MRAs inhabit, men are the victims.

@Voodoohoodoyoudo all those words are used to describe women regularly on MN.

Those words are used to describe Men and Women though. The words you use, and the contexts you use them in, is used solely to be derogatory towards Women. That’s why it’s different

just quietly popping up to give some kudos to @TomeTome

@Sirzy ,

Twat and cunt are really ugly misogynistic words. Somehow, when they are used ignorantly by women, it makes them alright.

People love weaponising words to attack people, but they don’t like the same being done to them.

The OP has made some good points and you should look at her intent, not her words.

The context she has used words in says a lot about her intent and her overall attitude though, that’s the point!

I’m Mum to a ds and dd. I haven’t noticed girls being encouraged to be drama queens or boys to be submissive. I teach both my children to respect others, have empathy but also protect and respect themselves. Girls need to learn they are strong and can succeed in areas previously closed off to them. I work in a very male industry and have a team of mainly women to try and combat that. We often sit in meetings with only men present from the other company.

My son knows he can be anything. It’s highly publicised that men have gone to space, designed amazing clothes, become doctors and scientists, sold bonkers art and amazing art, explored the world, written books, studied people’s minds, discovered new animal species, farmed the land, hunted for food, developed technology, become chefs and run whole countries.

My daughter has a smattering of this available and, what is available is currently being clawed back out of history after going almost exclusively unmentioned. I want her to grow up and see women can do it, even in fields that are almost exclusively male. I want her to be able to meet her own dreams, not be ruled by what a man thinks she should or shouldn’t do. I want her to realise she has power over her own life.

My son knows he does. Comparatively, my daughter will still have to fight for it.

You only need to spend a week actively watching people. On the roads, in a pub, on a high street. It is usually not women who are boiling over with anger and aggression. OP your concerns should not be about boys being taught to be submissive. You're way off the mark.