DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

[maay]

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

Just putting this here, 1 in 6 girls sexually abused before the age of 16. Most abuse happens at the hands of someone she knows.

We need to stop pussy footing around inappropriate men.

https://nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/nsa-child-sexual-abuse

Don’t understand why you wouldn’t address it with both of them immediately. “DD get off your uncle’s lap, it’s not appropriate”. “DB those commeNts are inappropriate to a 12 year old girl and also letting her sit on your lap is not on”. You need to lose the politeness/embarrassment you seem to feel - for your daughter’s sake. She needs these boundaries for dealing with other adults, not just your DB.

My ex's sister was abused by their mum's partner.
All the signs were there. On one occasion the sister sat one the partners lap at a family tea and one of the older relatives looked at her mum and said the immortal words " You need to remind her that ( partner ) is your boyfriend not hers ! ". Completely ignored the sisters odd behaviour going forward and put it down to " attention seeking " .

Poor kid was never going to get support in that family but thankfully was able to disclose to a school friend and didn't go home after school that day. Mum's partner was arrested and consequently jailed.

Things DO happen in front of family members . Some family ( like this one ) see the signs over and over and blame the child .
But I believe the predator in my story got off on being in plain sight .
It transpires later down the line he'd also sexually abused his own daughter when she was younger . He's also been convicted of sexually exposing himself in the last ten years and breaking the terms of an SOR . Deeply unpleasant person who's managed to be married 3 times and have 5 children .
Hiding in plain sight . It's not all in alleys , it's in children's own homes . At bath times and bed times . So the statement about it not being worrying if it happens in front of you is quite honestly exactly what this person wanted people to think .

Hey @Itwasafterallallaboutme Your racism, and ignorance of reality are showing. The Home Office and CPS have regularly confirmed that the majority of child sex offenders are white, including as members of grooming gangs. And those numbers are disproportionate to the population stats too. The fact that the press only makes high profile Asian offenders is because they are pandering to racists and trying to whip up anger in order to sell newspapers. You’re a fool for falling for it without actually looking into the numbers.

Sounds like she has a crush on her uncle OP. A talk with her to explain that it is inappropriate to sit on a man's lap is in order!

It was all good till the lap…
I think you need to have a word OP 🙁

Did she instigate sitting on his lap? If so she's 12, a little girl...

Multiple red flags. You need to act now - this sounds a lot like grooming and your DD needs to be kept safe from this.

When she sat on his lap, she was looking to you to make a comment. She’s done it before in the classes, was uncomfortable and wanted you to call it out. She wanted to find out if it was okay. You need to speak up

But if she's not sat on an adult's lap for a long time, but suddenly does, then this would concern me.

Too old to be sitting on his lap.

Never in a million years would my 13yr old DD sit on anyone's lap but mine, hasn't been any different for years.

Please DO NOT do this OP, if she is being abused, this puts the responsibility on her and will leave her for feeling like she was asking for it or was complicit as she grows up. It’s the adult man you should speak with.

I have a 12 year old daughter. She has literally grown up in the last couple of months. At christmas she would definitely sit on her dad's lap if there wasn't a seat. Now, no way. My Dh, her step dad. is different. Last summer she went to do the same, i think out of habit iwht her dad, and they both recoiled. I remember it as i was interested and relieved that it made them uncomfortable as i wouldn't have to speak to them about it. A welcome home or a good night hug, fine but definitely not lap sitting with adult male family.

Maybe she sees him as cool guitar playing uncle and you and dad as well how do 12 year olds see mum and dad? Probably not cool as mum and dad have to do the parenting.

If you have worries about uncle decide how to deal with it. Are lessons in a private room or family room, make sure doors are open, you are going in and out. If you are really worried then stopping the lessons seems the only other thing to do.

This, 100%. Many people get a thrill out of the danger. Jimmy Saville (OK, an extreme example) clearly got a kick out of groping and perving over women on TV. It amused him to test people's boundaries. I knew a woman who was sexually abused by her grandmother's partner (her stepgrandad) when she was a child. He'd grope and kiss her in the kitchen while her mum and her gran were in the next room. No doubt it amused him as well.

As others have said, trust your instinct. In my experience, that gut instinct is always correct. For example, my sister moved to a new estate with my niece. The guy next door was middle-aged, single and childless. He lived there with his mother. But when he chatted to my niece in the garden about school, and so on, my sister never once felt creeped out. His 'vibe' or 'aura' seemed good. However, she also bumped into a single guy in his 60s who lived a few doors down. He was very friendly, welcomed her to the area, and so on, but something about him was off. He was too friendly. Every time she walked the dog he seemed to appear, and it began to make her uncomfortable. She later found out he was on the sex offenders register.

We pick up so many signals and reg flags without being conscious of it. You've probably noticed lots of things that you're not aware of. I mean that they have registered at a subconscious level.

Naunet a 12 year old child needs to know how to cope and have boundaries in place. The Uncle would probably laugh the whole incident off just as the OPs father has done.

As a survivor of CSA, I’m telling you how comments like that leave a victim with guilt and a feeling of responsibility. Yes a child needs to learn health boundaries, but there are other ways of doing it, without referring to this specific incident or making it seem like she did something wrong.

is you brother conventionally attractive? (not an excuse before anyone jumps down my throat but) sounds silly but if he's a bit geeky looking she may be seeing it more as a brother relationship than a crush - regardless, its inappropriate and needs to be stopped.

Exactly.

In fact the most effective grooming happens right in front of the parents. And when it doesn't get twigged or stopped the child's boundary's are eroded even more and they feel less able to speak up.

to be it wouldn’t be anything because my child sits on anyone’s lap as a joke ( although she is 8 not 12 ) but if this is something she doesn’t do then yes I would be wary . Do you think you can talk with your partner ?

Sounds to me like the grooming has already begun. The gifts? The gig? It’s in full swing and it’s now at the testing boundaries point, are other adults going to call it out or turn a blind eye to not hurt the big, pervs feelings? He’s testing you, not the little girl, he’s showing her that it’s all “normal”.

It isn’t normal. Put a stop to it.

It is probably nothing more than him wanting to be a cool uncle

but you are not being unreasonable

12 is not a little girl, it's completely inappropriate for this to have happened and OP needs to address it.

I think this is the crucial bit actually. Uncle or not, grooming/ sexual abuse or not, a pubescent girl sitting on any man's lap oversteps boundaries significantly. Open conversations is how you keep children safe from potential sexual abuse - and most children that age would need it explicitly laid out to them that sitting on men's laps is now inappropriate as they still think with the mind of a child, despite beginning to have the thought and feelings of an older child/ young adult.

Oh wow such a concern. I would have said she might have a crush on him but why on earth wouldn't HE be weird about the lap sitting. Why didn't he make an excuse and stand up?