DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

[maay]

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

It to me sounded like an uncle spoiling his niece until the sitting on the lap part. That bit makes me really uncomfortable, trust your instincts.

Hmm, it's certainly concerning. What has their relationship been like before? Has he always spoiled her with gifts etc? How did he react when she sat on his lap?
I'd be gently probing her as to what happens during the guitar lessons etc and I'd definitely have the door open and be wandering in and out.
She might just see him as the cool uncle who buys her things but equally, it could very well be that he's grooming her.

Red flag central. Totally inappropriate behaviour.

Op If I were you I would act. It may well be innocent but as parents let's not find out later it wasn't. As with any relationship our kids have with other adults, put all the relevant boundaries in place and do not allow any alone time now. Also sit said child down and talk about boundaries, you don't need to highlight a specific person , but you do discuss that anyone could be a danger even friends and family and no one not even family members have the right to say or do certain things. Sorry if that's ott but I'd rather he ott then crying in 10 years time because i found out absue was going on.

Peachy2005 · Today 09:41
Don’t understand why you wouldn’t address it with both of them immediately. “DD get off your uncle’s lap, it’s not appropriate”. “DB those commeNts are inappropriate to a 12 year old girl and also letting her sit on your lap is not on”. You need to lose the politeness/embarrassment you seem to feel - for your daughter’s sake. She needs these boundaries for dealing with other adults, not just your DB.”

Agree this is the best approach, though I would speak to your step brother alone. He may be perfectly innocent of any wrong doing/have no such intentions. In which case I would expect a normal reaction to be realisation, embarrassment and apology.

He should not have allowed her to do that

I would act immediately, I can't think how either of my daughters would end up, aged 12 sitting on any man's lap except their own dad, and coupled with the remark about half-Asian girls, again, totally awful. It comes over as flirtatious.

Now it may be he's building up a paternal-type relationship with your daughter in an innocent way by complimenting her or behaving like a dad does in his mind, but he's not her dad! And this is not appropriate behaviour.

I can't imagine seeing any of this and thinking it's fine, it's creepy to make conversation about the attractiveness of any racial types anyway, how awful.

I expect your dd will be very busy in the future, and any guitar lessons, if you want to continue, will be had with you present/the door open, but I'd get her another guitar teacher, thank him for getting her this far and move her on and away.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful"

I know many people use the word 'girl' to describe adult women, sometimes it is fine, but adult men talking about what sort of 'girls' they are attracted to seems at very least a bit old fashioned, let alone in front of an actual girl who happens to be his niece.

I would feel uncomfortable and if he is your DB have a word, if your DH's then explain to him (men are not always aware) and get him to talk to his DB.

Listen to instincts but you don't need to go straight to ending all contact. Tell you DD it was inappropriate to sit on a grown man's lap now she is a young lady and that she can come to you if anyone including her uncle touches her or says anything that feels uncomfortable. Be clear about boundaries. Also speak to your brother in law and just say 'I didn't like it when DD sat in your lap the other day, we want to make sure she has good boundaries so please don't encourage this, she's too old for it.' That sets him straight about your boundaries with your child, and if his resposne is anything other than 'sorry/of course' I'd trust your instincts and stop allowing them time alone together. It is also ok to intervene if he makes comments about her looks and tell him, 'it's not right for an uncle to make those kind of comments. I don't like it.' In front of her so they both see you are in her corner.

Yes I was thinking this is fine until the sitting on his lap and the comments about looks. I think need to start putting some barriers in place to ensure she's not spending time alone. Sorry but just too many pieces of the puzzle there...she's of that age where these things often start and he's not blood related (not that that makes a difference always just means there's less of a line being crossed in his mind), he been showering her in attention and gifts (classic grooming). The fact he made a comment about beauty in front of you would make me wonder what's he's said when you weren't there. It MAY be innocent but with those facts I wouldn't be taking risks. Sorry.

He is literally talking and behaving like a seventies DJ

and we all know they were a bad lot

This sort of behaviour is why safe guarding was invented

I was all for saying you were overthinking this until the last two points.

But no. Trust your gut.

It is an absolute hard no from me. I would cut all ties between them immediately.

This

This is the problem with grooming, it's so subtle it's hard to spot it happening right under your nose. They don't leap straight to SA, it starts by eroding boundaries little by little until you suddenly have a massive WTAF moment. If Uncle has nefarious intentions, he's testing you right now.

If I were you I would not drink a drop of alcohol when uncle is around, and make sure there are no trips up to bedrooms etc.

I would start inviting myself along on their jaunts, and I'd loudly, cheerfully call him out on creepy behaviour - "Uncle, Name is 12, it is inappropriate for her to sit on your lap", "Uncle, please don't comment on looks like that, it is creepy". You've got to let him know you're "on to him".

If you're wrong, then the worst for you is that you come off looking like an overprotective dick, if you're right then the worst for your daughter is a lot, well, worse.

This is a really good example of grooming and how it works within a friend's and family setting. It's so insidious because it operates in a really grey area, is-it-or-isnt-it, easily explained away.

https://www.defendyoungminds.com/post/10-ways-predators-grooming-kids

It's probably time to start talking to your daughter as well in a kid friendly way, she needs to know that not everyone in the world has her best interests at heart. It might be a bit young for her but I'd look up tricky people guidelines....

• safe adults go to other adults for help, advice and support. Tricky adults ask kids.

• Tricky adults cross touch boundaries. Safe adults will know what is appropriate for your age and respect your body accordingly.

• Tricky adults treat kids/teens like peers. Safe adults treat kids/teens like teens.

• tricky adults separate and isolate kids from their grown ups, safe adults include their kids grown ups.

I'd also make sure she knows that she doesn't have to be polite to anyone who crosses boundaries, that someone buying her a gift doesn't entitle them to anything further or buy her affection.

Haven't rtwt but had to say the lap part sounds off. My friend got abused by a guitar teacher and it started with him making her sit on his lap "to show her the correct hand positions". I'd worry that the reason she did it is because she's done it in the lesson.

A different friend was abused by someone who essentially groomed the whole family in order to gain her trust, these things can absolutely happen in plain sight.

It doesn't really matter whether you're being reasonable or not.

If something is making you uncomfortable you have to go with that. You can't (and shouldn't) dismiss your intuition.

The biggest red flag is that you're on MN posting about this OP. You clearly feel uneasy. Remember, we notice far more than we're aware of. You've probably noticed/registered things at a subconscious level. These may not be things you can remember – I mean things you hold in your conscious mind – but at some deeper level they've rung alarm bells. I'd trust that feeling. I bet others can give examples of men who've made their skin crawl and have later turned out to be predators or abusers.

YADNBU. There’s something off here. The lap sitting and his comment about half Asian girls is very inappropriate and would make me worry that there’d been similar comments when they’re alone.

I’d absolutely reduce their contact and I’d also talk to him alone to tell him to reduce the gifts and stop the creepy comments.

Have a word with him about his language used in front of your daughter

Either say it is not appropriate to talk about about ''girls' in a blurred lines manner that sexualizes children and infantalizes adult women

Or just tell him he sounds like Jimmy Savile

THIS
Good grief
Do you really need to ask?
Stop contact immediately- no explanation necessary.

@Hartley99 So true. If you did ‘t have concerns, you wouldn’t be posting.

99.9% of the posts could say ‘it’s all innocent, blah blah blah’ but we haven’t witnessed what’s going on, and picked up on your mothers instinct/gut feeling/spidery senses etc which have set the warning bells tolling.

Maybe he is just the Cool Uncle and she’s hero worshipping him, but maybe not. Be the advocate for your daughter and do what you have to to maintain her safety.

Trust your gut op.

I think this is a good way to stop it and certainly if he's up to no good it will signal to him that you are on to him. It needs to be tackled definitely. Also no more lessons without you being there reading a book in the corner or something.