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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

415 replies

maay · 07/05/2024 00:35

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

OP posts:
Blankscreen · 07/05/2024 20:29

OP thank goodness you listened to your instincts and you can protect your daughter.

What's terrifying is that he may target another child and get away with it.

Not sure where you go from here but you do not need to sit on the teacher's lap for guitar lessons!!

godmum56 · 07/05/2024 20:31

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 20:25

The problem with using the word 'crush' is that allows the groomer and other adults to justify certain actions (ie sitting on lap) and believe the feelings are reciprocated. It is irrelevant if the 12 year old had a crush or not. Framing the issue as a crush gives ample excuse to enable to abuser to continue. This is exactly how 'she was asking for it' comes about and pedophiles believe that children are equal participants.

Show quote history

yes not a great word to use I agree. My point was though that there are things that a child might have feelings about that she (or he) will still need to be protected from.

WingingItSince1973 · 07/05/2024 20:41

OP your latest update has made me feel so sick. Well done for talking to your dd. I was abused as a child. I wish my mum had took me away from the danger. Now as a mum of 3 DDs it is really scary and I feel so much for you. Seek the advice of a professional to help navigate your and your dd emotions. Lots of love.

Genevie82 · 07/05/2024 20:43

I think the best way to approach this OP was what was HIS reaction when she sat on his lap? Anything other than looking very uncomfortable and quickly moving her off / getting up tells you everything about the situation. Normal men would find this very awkward as it crosses boundaries with adolescent girls. I think your step brother is likely grooming your daughter in plain sight and the obv way to protect her is to stop the lessons. You’re her parent and responsible to take action rather than dismiss your gut feelings as you don’t want to upset anyone and find out later on he has been abusing her. It’s too much of a risk to do nothing.

MrsTerryPratchett · 07/05/2024 20:46

Thank goodness you had the conversation. I'd seek some professional advice. I'm sorry but more may have happened that she doesn't want to disclose. I'd call the police. Questioning her without professional advice once you know something is wrong is a bad idea. PLEASE seek advice urgently.

alrightluv · 07/05/2024 20:51

Oh no. I'm so sorry. We thought as much but the reality is awful.

SquirrelMadness · 07/05/2024 20:53

What an awful situation for you to have to deal with but thank goodness she is safe. You've kept her safe, she will thank you so much for this when she is older.

Lenoftheglen · 07/05/2024 20:57

Definitely grooming. So sorry OP.

My dds are both accomplished guitar players and we have had private tutors for years. Never have I or they ever heard of lap sitting as an effective teaching tool. Ugh.

fliptopbin · 07/05/2024 20:58

I would be stopping the guitar lessons, and switching to a female guitar teacher if she still wants lessons once it is not with her uncle. To be honest, I always insisted on female music teachers for my daughter, as I didn't want her being in a room with a lone male, because I know how intense the relationship can be between music teacher and pupil, and there have been so many cases of abuse/grooming in this situation that I felt that the risk was too great.
I would tell my daughter that now that she is growing up, it is no longer appropriate for her to be spending 1 on 1 time with any adult males other than her father.
I would also speak to my brother, and make it clear that the gifts, gigs etc have to stop, because even if it is all innocent in your brother's mind, it is not appropriate for your dd to be having that sort of relationship with any adult male, because even if your brother has no evil intent, other men will.

Pookerrod · 07/05/2024 20:58

Thank goodness your DD has opened up to you and his motives are now undeniable. My son has had guitar tuition since aged 5 from a range of guitar tutors over the years and not once has he sat on any of their laps.

You said he teaches/has taught other children… I shudder to think how many girls have sat on his lap in the hope of one day being amazing guitar players….

He needs to be reported.

insomniacdreams · 07/05/2024 21:07

I’m sorry to hear that your daughter has been put in such an uncomfortable position but it’s great she told you about it. It now makes me think she did this in a family setting to gauge your reaction. It’s great you spotted it and didn’t push it aside.

It sounds like your brother is attempting to groom her. He shouldn’t be around or teaching children. I echo posters encouraging you to seek professional guidance and help with this.

As upsetting as this all is, you’ve done incredibly to act on your suspicions and protect your daughter.

FuckTheClubUp · 07/05/2024 21:11

Goodness, well done for speaking with your DD OP. I wish more parents followed their instincts and taken things like this as seriously as they should. Good luck to you all x

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 21:12

fliptopbin · 07/05/2024 20:58

I would be stopping the guitar lessons, and switching to a female guitar teacher if she still wants lessons once it is not with her uncle. To be honest, I always insisted on female music teachers for my daughter, as I didn't want her being in a room with a lone male, because I know how intense the relationship can be between music teacher and pupil, and there have been so many cases of abuse/grooming in this situation that I felt that the risk was too great.
I would tell my daughter that now that she is growing up, it is no longer appropriate for her to be spending 1 on 1 time with any adult males other than her father.
I would also speak to my brother, and make it clear that the gifts, gigs etc have to stop, because even if it is all innocent in your brother's mind, it is not appropriate for your dd to be having that sort of relationship with any adult male, because even if your brother has no evil intent, other men will.

But it is all innocent in the brothers mind? Does he have no evil intent. Only the brother knows the answer to this. Everything we all now know about grooming process suggests this is what he was trying to do. No one teaches guitar by getting students to sit on his lap. I would be very worried about all his other students too. He needs to be reported and at the very least professional advice needs to be sought. All the other parents also need to know about this as they unknowingly send their kids to guitar lessons!

0sm0nthus · 07/05/2024 21:15

Stop the guitar lessons!?
I'd be smashing several guitars over his head!
What was he going to get her to do in return for buying the trainers that her parents refused? The trainers would then become their secret.
I'd rip his fucking throat out.

0sm0nthus · 07/05/2024 21:23

She said he only touches her hands and arms
Of course, the objective of grooming is to make the victim feel as if they have consented to everything, so it ramps up very slowly. Then when he does something for which there is NO plausible deniability the victim feels unable to complain because they have implicitly consented to all the small steps that led up to it.
She's sitting on his lap, he has his arms around her, wtf OP why dont you want to kill him??

Starblind19 · 07/05/2024 21:29

This is sickening. When I read about her sitting on his lap my heart sunk. I am sure you have covered this but be very clear on personal boundaries and age appropriate behaviour but reinforce she is not to blame for any of his grooming behaviours unfortunately the poor child can't even trust her uncle to not have an ulterior motive. Thank god though you were around to pick up on that sign and didn't just brush it off. Sorry you are having to deal with this though. It is no wonder that women everywhere are 'choosing the bear'.

0sm0nthus · 07/05/2024 21:36

He has showered her with flattery, gifts etc, promising her fame & fortune, all this makes it VERY hard for her to complain about anything he does or see it in anything BUT a good light. Had he gotten away with having her sit on his lap in company he'd have known he had a green light to take things further. He would have known that her parents trusted HIM completely so if she ever spoke out she'd not be believed.

Powderblue1 · 07/05/2024 21:37

I'd say trust your gut. I agree with others who have said to call out the behaviour (even in a jokey way) to set boundaries for him and her.

Caroparo52 · 07/05/2024 21:37

No no no.
Trust your gut

Bzybee · 07/05/2024 21:38

It's time to have some gentle conversations with your daughter. Maybe you could phrase it as if a male teacher behaves inappropriately, what she should do? And lead up to her own behaviour.
Keep a close eye, OP. Better safe than sorry.
Perhaps it's all innocent, but if it's not, then you will always have regrets, that you should have Done something.
Look at getting her guitar lessons at school, if it's a possibility.

Littlemisscapable · 07/05/2024 21:38

Even in the extremely unlikely event that this is innocent this man hasn't an iota of common sense !!!!? That alone would worry me. Doesn't he understand boundaries and appropriate behaviour. I didn't like the sound of it from your first post and now it sounds just awful poor you and DD. You are doing the right thing..he sounds vile.

rainbowbee · 07/05/2024 21:39

I read the update. So sorry OP. But your child will thank you. I feel sick about the lap-sitting, the fetishising of Asian girls and the special secret trainers. Very glad she told you.
What are the next steps? Does he have access to other girls who may not be so lucky?

ApricotsAndPlums · 07/05/2024 21:44

My god, OP, this is horrific — absolutely textbook grooming and he’s done the classic thing of making your DD feel complicit and crossing boundaries it in plain view to try and normalise the abuse. As PPs have said, remember that he will deny it, use DARVO, and try and make you feel like you’re being crazy/unreasonable/hysterical. Do not have him in your house again and please call the NSPCC as a matter of urgency for advice on what to do next. Personally I’d be reporting him to the police immediately — he is clearly a dangerous man and a risk to other children.

Bzybee · 07/05/2024 21:45

Just seen your last post, OP. Well done for having a chat with your daughter and so sorry your fears are a reality. Thank goodness you clicked before something worse happened. Best of luck dealing with this situation.

Frangipanyoul8r · 07/05/2024 21:46

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc.

I had guitar lessons at that age with a man. There was never any need for any physical contact whatsoever. We sat apart both holding our guitars. There was definitely never a need for me to sit on his lap!