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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD and her uncle...AIBU to feel uncomfortable?

415 replies

maay · 07/05/2024 00:35

My daughter is 12. In January her uncle started giving her guitar lessons as she really wanted to learn. He has been playing for years and sometimes teaches lessons, so when he offered to teach her for free, it was too good to turn down. The lessons are at our house. She's really been enjoying it. I still offer him money, but it's always a firm no.

He took her to see a band that they both like in March. His wife was also there. DD came back with loads of merch. I was thankful but told him he didn't need to do all of that! I felt like it was really cool they were bonding so well though. DH loved to see it as well.

He has bought her quite a few things now other than that merch. Like a necklace, posters, figurines, he even offered to buy her expensive trainers when she asked me for them in front of him. I said no to that one, because me and DH already decided she didn't need them. (girl has a lot.)

DH and I check her phone regularly. They text each other probably once or twice a week. It's brief and they just send each other memes and links to music they like. I haven't seen an actual conversation with them, so think I'm happy with that.

Yesterday he was at our house. We were all in the same room talking. DD went and sat on his lap and it made me feel uncomfortable. Only because she never sits on an adults lap anymore? I wasn't going to make a scene or anything, so I just made an excuse and asked her to come help me with something in a different room. When she went back into the room, she didn't sit on his lap again.

The same day, he dropped into conversation about how "Asian and half Asian girls are the most beautiful" he looked at DD and she giggled. DD is half Asian. I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. But I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable? I don't want to break an innocent bond, but I feel like I missed some red flags and I'm now seeing them? DH says he just loves his niece and he doesn't think we have to worry.

OP posts:
Scotcheggz · 07/05/2024 19:23

When is the last time, prior to this, that she sat on an adults lap? It’s very worrying imo. I think he’s grooming her in plain sight. I think anime is really dodgy. And she could easily hold a very strong crush on him

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 19:25

Friedchickenrocks · 07/05/2024 19:03

I'd hardly say she was too young at 12. Maybe at 6 or 7 yes.

Show quote history

Age 6 or 7=not ok however Age 12=ok- she has a 'crush' don't you know! In fact until she is an adult at age 18 it is NOT ok. Even at age 18 if a much older man was buying gifts etc then there would be a power differential. When will people stop assigning responsibility to OPs daughter on the basis 'she has a crush'. Incredible. Its no wonder so many men feel able to get away with grooming children and teenagers and get away with abuse. Society at large allows it.

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 19:27

It's sad that in 2024 we're still putting the responsibility and shame on the vulnerable girl (a child) rather than the dominant (in this dynamic) man.

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 19:29

slore · 07/05/2024 19:14

Yeah this "uncle" is being inappropriate.

Buying gifts for the targeted child and charming her, and ingratiating himself with the parents (favours and free lessons) are classic grooming behaviours.

The biggest red thing paedophiles do when they groom is to gently push boundaries in front of the parents. This shows them what they can get away with, desensitizes the parents, and demonstrates to the targeted child that these behaviours (lap-sitting, racially fetishistic comments) are ok because her parents didn't make a fuss. It also gently wears down the boundaries of the child.

Your daughter is obviously responsive to his charms and thinks a lot of him. It's working on her, which was his intention.

She's in a lot of danger and you need to put a stop to it. You also need to reinforce to your daughter that these behaviours weren't appropriate so that she develops good judgement about what is normal for adult men and underage girls.

This. Abuse in plain sight is what keeps abusers in a position of power and says to the child 'look even your parents don't mind...'

Universalsnail · 07/05/2024 19:30

I would cut this off right now. This absolutely reads like grooming.

AromanticSpices · 07/05/2024 19:32

Sorry OP but if the lap thing wasn't enough, the anime and the increased hanging around at yours certainly is.
Direct words needed to the Uncle. And something appropriate to your DD.

Sorry you are in this position, it must be awful not really being able to put your finger on it. But believe that enough people think this is enough to pay attention to.

Dotcomma · 07/05/2024 19:35

If he teaches guitar professionally and he's in any way dodgy then you need to find out - but always put your daughter first above everything else and get her talking. I wouldn't tell her why you're concerned as she might shut down but you could just ask her how she is, is everything ok, is there anything she wants to talk about - or however you would normally start chatting. You could eventually ask her about playing the guitar and how serious she is about it - or is it just a passing phase - let her talk. Ask her about music teachers at school and if she'd prefer to learn there - just keep everything low key. Me & DD have always had these conversations about absolutely anything and everything - it's important as they start growing away from you that she knows you're there no matter what. Always have her back. I could get away with saying something like "what's all this sitting on uncle's knee - you don't sit on mine or dad's knee cos you're a bit old for that now but it just seemed a strange thing to do.

Well done for taking her out of the room and breaking up the situation without any fuss x

Original poster
maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

OP posts:
CustardySergeant · 07/05/2024 19:46

maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

What are you going to do?

Royaly82 · 07/05/2024 19:49

Oh my goodness I feel sick for you! Thank god you picked up on it when you did

slore · 07/05/2024 19:50

maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

Wow. He's even more brazen than I thought.

Wishing you and your family the best of luck for navigating this.

I'd go scorched earth and report him to the police. There's not been a particular crime (though they might be interested in the racial comments), but there will be evidence building up for if he harms any children in the future.

HaveSomeIntrospect · 07/05/2024 19:52

I’ve never known a pupil have to sit on the lap of a guitar teacher.

definately sounds like grooming.

please remind your dd that she has autonomy and can say no when in situations that make her uncomfortable, like when a grown man asked her to sit on his knee. Also, in this situation, he may now tell your dd that’s its okay to sit on his knee because no one said anything when she did it in front of them

zanahoria · 07/05/2024 19:53

maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

I am so pleased to hear that you talked to her

Dontknowwhyidoit · 07/05/2024 19:54

Go with your gut and explain to your daughter that she is to big to be sitting on her uncles lap etc. alarm bells would be ringing in my head as this is very intimate behaviour and if this is out of the ordinary behaviour for her, even more so. I would also talk to your step brother about his comment about asian girls and tell him that it was a weird thing to say and make him uncomfortable.

godmum56 · 07/05/2024 19:54

General comment. I am not sure saying "she has a crush" is blaming the child. Children do get feelings that can have condequences that they need to be protected from and help to deal with. Such feelings can be triggered and used by abusers.

Worryer · 07/05/2024 19:54

Hugs OP what a horrific situation 😢

HonestCrow · 07/05/2024 19:57

If I’m being honest it sounds like grooming to me. Buying her gifts, giving her lessons, seems to be wanting to win her affection. I’m sure any decent grown man would know that his behaviour is not acceptable, it’s also important your DD understands this is not acceptable behaviour from a grown man and develops her own healthy boundaries.

HamBagelNoCheese · 07/05/2024 20:00

maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

Bless you both - you clearly have a great relationship for her to feel able to be open and honest with you.

It might be worth contacting the NSPCC for some advice on what to do next

Pineconepicture · 07/05/2024 20:05

maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

Oh OP, I'm so glad you've had an open chat and well done trusting your instincts!

snowdroplets · 07/05/2024 20:06

Although I'm sure it was horrible to hear, it's great that your DD told you about being asked to sit on his lap.

The "Asian girls are the most beautiful" comment sounds like fetishisation to me. I think that's enough to stop the guitar lessons, never mind the sitting on lap part.

Scotma · 07/05/2024 20:12

This is absolutely grooming, I’m so sorry.
id call NSPCC for advice.

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 20:13

maay · 07/05/2024 19:44

I had a chat with DD. She admitted he told her to sit on his lap so he can help with the guitar, positioning her hands etc. She felt weird about it at first but he told her it will make her the "best guitarist in the world" so now she's OK with it. She said he only touches her hands and arms.

He also promised her those trainers "eventually" after we said no to them. We are definitely treating it as a grooming situation. My own step brother...I feel awful. Being a mum is so scary.

Although it is horrible to hear, it's good that you were able to speak with her and that she was able to tell you.

The man's a creep and now you can keep her safe and far away from him, so she can recover from his influence.

Do you know if he has access to other children?

HappierTimesAhead · 07/05/2024 20:21

I'm so sorry OP, there's not one person on this thread who wanted this to be the case even if we suspected it 😔

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 20:25

godmum56 · 07/05/2024 19:54

General comment. I am not sure saying "she has a crush" is blaming the child. Children do get feelings that can have condequences that they need to be protected from and help to deal with. Such feelings can be triggered and used by abusers.

The problem with using the word 'crush' is that allows the groomer and other adults to justify certain actions (ie sitting on lap) and believe the feelings are reciprocated. It is irrelevant if the 12 year old had a crush or not. Framing the issue as a crush gives ample excuse to enable to abuser to continue. This is exactly how 'she was asking for it' comes about and pedophiles believe that children are equal participants.

Busybeemumm · 07/05/2024 20:27

Well done OP for using your intuition here and also for having a great bond with your daughter that she was able to open up to you. Good luck with your step brother who in no doubt will deny and play the victim.