2dc/sc/slpst/ chain 1 - why my sister thinks my husband is a sex trafficker.

[Fandangodiggers]

NC but penis beaker, Mexican house thief, screaming in the Sistine etc etc.

My sister lives alone and started an online relationship with an American man during covid. He moved to the U.K. in 2022. They live together, apparently entirely platonically. We’ll call him ‘Ken’. Ken has had to spend the last few months back in America (something to do with his visa) so we’ve been inviting my sister round for coffees and dinner a couple of times a month.

My sister and Ken originally bonded over their shared political views. Both are from the very far left, and together their views have gotten more and more extreme. Unfortunately, both have become fans of conspiracy theories.

Last night my sister came over unannounced and wanted to speak to me alone. She seemed concerned so we went for a coffee. It transpires that my sister believes that she has uncovered a child sex trafficking ring being run from the golf club where my husband is a member, and she believes my husband is the main organiser.

This kind of madness is fairly on brand for my sister but this was well beyond her normal batshittery. Her key piece of evidence was a notebook she had stolen from my house the last time she was there that contains a ‘secret code’ she has managed to decipher. 2dc = 2 dead children, 1sc = 1 sexy child etc etc. in this book she’s found an entire inventory my husband is keeping and by her and Ken’s reckoning, thousands of children have passed through this golf club.

I write crochet patterns as a hobby. Granted, she probably isn’t aware of this.

It has to be the end of my relationship with my sister at this point (obviously) but I’m so desperately sad to lose her this way. I was hoping with Ken away, we would be able to bring her back into the fold and stop her decent into conspiracy theory madness but I honestly think she’s too far gone.

Just on the off chance, has anyone ever managed to successfully salvage someone from extreme radicalisation like this or do I need to follow my instincts on this one and let her go? I’m resigned to losing her but if there’s a chance to salvage her I’d like to try.

FYI I have of course told DH, he thinks it’s hilarious so no harm done there but I have told him to alert the golf course staff in case she tries to burn the place down or something.

And just to say that’s not true at all. I was not a risk to myself or anyone else and I was sectioned. My psychosis started as quite mundane. I knew about a fringe topic most people didn’t know about at the time. Most people do know about the topic now so that part was based in reality. What was the psychotic part was I went searching for other people talking about it. I thought that songs and music videos were potentially trying to talk about it. Not in some kind of talking to me specifically or some kind of secret code. More in the way artists can out duel meanings to things or hidden Easter eggs in stuff. That was a mild psychosis which tbh could probably have just simmered on and been ignored. I could have easily dipped in and out of it or onto something else. But I was chasing that one thing. This is where I think OPs sister is.

What managed to get me sectioned was that the more mental health interaction I had the more panicked I got. Because I thought omg they know I know, they are coming after me to silence me. And only then was it a ‘full blown’ psychosis where I felt unsafe and reality and my psychosis was just completely blurred. But it was there before 100%. I was psychotic in those early stage. But not psychotic PLUS feeling threatened. That’s when things explode and they could just see then when they looked at me that I was quickly getting worse. More panicked. More anxious. More closed off.

And then they sectioned me. They threw the kitchen sink at me. And forever grateful for that. There’s excellent help out there and they take early intervention in psychosis incredibly seriously. Because if they don’t catch it really early then you’re likely to be costing them time and money for the remainder of your life.

I think of crochet as all sorts of things- ‘normal stitch’ ‘corner stitch’ etc. I do the same with embroidery stitches- ‘bisto stitch’ for bullion stitch for example. I don’t write them down but if I did no one else would recognise them!

OP, you might find it helpful to read this thread on Twitter about the connections between 'New Age thinking' and QAnon and know you are not alone.

Absolutely agree with this, most NHS boards are very keen to intervene early with psychosis spectrum symptoms.

Id also add @Fandangodiggers that excitement telling you may seem inconsistent with being mentally unwell, but it's not uncommon in the early stages of a delusion getting set in the mind. The person has been feeling all sorts of uncertainty, turmoil, confusion and aha! They have found the reason! The explanation! It's all suddenly clear. The relief and thrill of that is quite strong. Then they tell others and get anything from a non reaction to negative reactions or medical care (now people think I'm crazy due to my beliefs!) and that's where their negative feelings, paranoia, feeling shut down or persecuted start to develop.

I do a lot of knitting but never learned to crochet and certainly wouldn't immediately have thought ‘crochet!’ on seeing those abbreviations.

That’s a very far cry from immediately thinking ‘child trafficking’ though! She does sound seriously unhinged.
Presumably you told her they were crochet patterns, OP?

@FlipFlops4Me

Oh for goodness sake! Your sister is a pillock. Surely she knows basic crochet terms like dc and sc? I crochet but my own sister doesn't, but is aware of the terms for stitches. Just like I don't knit but know knitting terminology.

Off topic but this is a strange idea - why would someone who doesn't crochet 'surely' know basic crochet terms? If you asked the average person who doesn't craft what those shorthand terms meant, the vast vast majority (basically all) wouldn't assume they were crochet ones. I'd have had zero idea!

I write crochet patterns as a hobby. Granted, she probably isn’t aware of this.

and you were supposedly very close and love each dearly?

It's so hard with things like this because "normally" you might be able to say "ok, you suspect XYZ, what facts do you have and what facts would you consider to disprove your suspicion?" but you can't really prove a negative - that the club isn't a sex trafficking hub - and also in my experience it doesn't matter what they're confronted with because they just shift to something else.

I think you need to have clear boundaries - as you say, don't make up stuff about people; if you suspect something make it clear what facts have led you to conclude this; if you're acting on feelings not fact that's also OK but why not tell me what your feelings are? Maybe you can get to the bottom of what's underneath all of this?

You will end up seriously mentally ill if you(she) genuinely walk around thinking everyone is pretending about everything and there's a secret truth no-one ever owns up to and is 99% covered up.

Could you suggest some volunteer work to help the community - put her money where her mouth is? Food banks, community kitchens etc? Might help her live in the real world for a bit and have a sense of purpose.

Yes absolutely. Completely recognise that period of elation.

Im just going on and on now but I think the NHS is just so incredible in this area. 5 years of stability after my episode (no medication, no health care input, no relapses) they still put in an incredible level of support when I became pregnant for the first time as I was at high risk of post partum psychosis. I had a mental health nurse, psychiatrist, and multidisciplinary maternity team pre partum to keep an eye on me and create action plans with me if I become unwell with post partum psychosis. This never even crossed my mind but was auto flagged.

Post partum I had (even though still entirely well) the same specialist mental health midwife nurse visiting daily for 2 weeks, once a week for 6 further weeks and once a month for further 6 months before being discharged. She was incredible. She became like a dear friend or relative by the end of it all and it was sad to say goodbye.

I feel bad in a way I got all of that support when entirely well and other girls had had ptsd from their births or post natal depression or bonding problems and struggled to get help. But I am incredibly grateful. The NHS psychosis services in U.K. really are world leading. I hope the rest of MH care can get enough funding to catch up.

Yes to this.
There is also a strong link to the anti-vax and anti "medical establishment" crowd. A lot of vulnerable people get swept along on this tide of bilge.

OP, I think your sister is extremely vulnerable to the machinations of people like her boyfriend. I'd be tempted to mention all of this to the police. She could be talked into all sorts of behaviour, even criminal activity.

If she isn't in regular contact with an HCP, there's possibly very little you can do to get her the MH treatment she very obviously needs. This isn't just a case of having opinions that are not mainstream/ live and let live/ right to freedom of speech, etc. You rightly realise she has crossed a line. The line is the one separating rationality from psychosis.

If we have a close and loving relationship with someone like the OP says she and her sister do, it is precisely at times like this when wouldn’t go NC but that was intention in your OP?

Have you heard of Prevent @Fandangodiggers ? As your sister seems to be getting more radical in her beliefs your local team may be able to help. As previous PP have said, she's heading into dangerous territory as her accusations could have catastrophic consequences for your DH.

On a lighter note, I'm assuming SC is single chain & DC double chain 😉

As annoying as she can be, don't cut her out of your life, if at all possible.
That kind of delusion regarding people she has actually contact with, is indicative of a serious mental issue.
The fact that she dropped it and trusted you when you showed her proof was non existent is indicative that she trusts you.

You might be one of few people keeping her anchored to reality. I know you did not choose that role for yourself, but if she ends up completely isolated she might fall apart.
I would not call it radicalisation, from the description. More like psychosis.

I’d have no idea about crochet patterns….. but to be fair I also would t leap to assuming. Child trafficking ring!
I’m sorry @Fandangodiggers this must be really distressing. Could you look up advice about deprogramming cult members? It must be a similar thing.

Your sister does sound unwell but I would be concerned about her American friend using her in some way as she sounds vulnerable , is the visa trouble genuine?

What have the first two lines of the post got to do with anything? I know they are previous threads - but why are they relevant here? Please can someone explain??

Often people are skeptical of threads started by new users, particularly where the thread topic is a bit bizarre (you’ll see responses like “Interesting first post…”)

The OP is referencing a few “classic” threads from previous years, to demonstrate that, even if she’s posting under a new username, she is a long term mumsnetter.

I think I would be very worried about her tbh.She seems to have lost touch with reality.csn you get her to a doctor?

I certainly hope not she sounds extremely unwell.

Has she had psychotic episodes in the past?

This podcast is also one hell of a warning, because it very clearly demonstrates that people like your sister are not just harmless kooks who believe in nonsense, but dangerous obsessives who ruin people’s lives.

It’s one thing to believe that the government is controlling your mind with 5G and that you can stop this with a tinfoil hat. That’s insane, but all it really does is makes the believer look silly and doesn’t really harm anyone else. It’s a completely different kettle of fish to believe that people around you are running a secret child rape ring. Because eventually, people who believe this stuff tell other conspiracy theorists, and then people start finding these conspiracists on their doorsteps ready to confront them. The Hampstead conspiracists destroyed the lives of innocent people and attempted to abduct one of those innocent people’s children to ‘rescue’ them, as well as sharing photos of all the children online, naming them as children who had been ritually abused by their entirely innocent parents and teachers.

Honestly, if my sister started carrying on like this, I’d probably never speak to her again.

Oh, and as others have said - habitual weed smoking over many years can absolutely cause the kind of paranoid cognitive somersaults that your sister is having. An awful lot of the worst conspiracy theorists are weed smokers (weed was a major factor for a lot of the conspiracists in Hoaxed).

Yes, it’s really odd to assume that anyone would know crochet terms. I don’t even really know the difference between crochet and knitting, let alone what any ‘basic crochet terms’ might be.

Came here to mention the Monbiot article upthread. Useful insight. What does she say if you ask what action she is going to take as a consequence of her findings?

Also I'd be looking into the American further, and any exploitation there.

She needs to get back in society. I'm not usually a "get a job!" poster but in this instance, I am.

This sort of stuff is fairly mainstream these days, particularly in the US (and particularly but not exclusively on the political right). I don’t think it’s necessarily indicative of a mental health crisis, it’s just where society is at.

This may not be relevant as it doesn’t sound like she’s promoting violence but something to consider? You said it seems like radicalisation.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/get-help-if-youre-worried-about-someone-being-radicalised

Very hard to let her know anything about my life, she talks about her own life and thoughts but never asks about mine. She also doesn’t know I love gardening, hasn’t mentioned how nice the garden looks etc in 20 years. We are however close and love each other, she’s my sister.