Restaurant row who is at fault?

[Polishedshoesalways]

Out with friends in a restaurant last night - six of us in total. Two of my friends were light heatedly disagreeing about gender politics between them. They were not bothering anyone else.

Friend x suddenly shouts at them quite aggressively and loudly to ‘shut up’

Loud enough for the tables around us to stop and stare.

Would you think this is rude? She was not part of the conversation at the time.

The table sat in stunned silence after that. It’s now really awkward. She hasn’t apologised or acknowledged that shouting or shutting a conversation down like that isn’t cool. The friends in question seem offended.

What do you think? Do they have a point?
Are you okay with being told to shut up?

I feel like I have made my two friends sound annoying on here, but they really aren’t! They were just talking as they always do. It’s no different to other times. Maybe she is sick of us all 😂

Whilst your friend was rude who the heck wants to go out and listen to that shyte? You go out to let your hair down! Maybe she's fed up with listening to the same old tripe!

We had other issues when we were teenagers. Sexual assault was standard in some jobs for example. Feminism at that time was still quite niche, and my parents thought I was edgy for wearing DMs! We have always taken an interest, all of us have Dds now too.

Could be a mh issue such as bipolar ( I'm talking from experience in my family) in which case there is no 'blame' to be attributed

Male or female, shouting at dinner in a restaurant is rude

Not acceptable whatever the background. If she cannot accept that people have varied opinions she should not go for group meals.

Why are people having such heavy debates when out eating?
Aren't you telling jokes and being lighthearted.

The fact that you've had contact with her since and she's not acknowledging that she was at fault is a concern - definitely postpone the holiday. I agree with PPs that maybe this has become a personal subject for her (kids at uni) or she's just losing her social skills.

For fuck's sake, don't be so bloody ableist.

I'm autistic and wouldn't dream of telling friends, who are engaged in a separate conversation, to shut up.

On the other hand, I do sometimes witter on too much and have to be (politely) told to shut up because I miss social cues.
If I get something wrong and it's pointed out to me, I feel awful - I don't dig my heels in like the rude friend.

Read my following posts.

Sometimes yes, but not always. We are very old friends and we don’t have to be ‘entertaining’ or ‘light hearted’ depends where we are and what is happening.

You don’t need to be ND to witter on! I witter on a regular basis and most people don’t mind at all. I find it harder with people that don’t talk tbh.

Because people are different.

I would be bored going out and just listening to people telling jokes and being light hearted.

Other people would be bored if they came out with me and my friends because we enjoy talking about women's rights, politics etc.

Neither of us is right or wrong. We just have different ways of enjoying ourselves.

I have.

I agree that autism and other ND conditions were massively underdiagnosed in the past, especially in women, and that there are many undiagnosed adults (I was in my 50s before I got my diagnosis).

But I still find the assumption that rude adults must be ND to be ableist and offensive. It happens a lot on Mumsnet.

Nope, I made the suggestion as the friend may well be acting in a way that is not in her control. It was really a post to suggest kindness.

She was rude to have shouted loud enough for people on surrounding tables to turn around. Someone needs to tell her that her actions were unpleasant and she has upset the two people that she shouted at.

Generally speaking, I agree.

But unfortunately, women are often called rude and aggressive when in fact, they're just standing up for themselves and making themselves heard.

I can see that you meant it to suggest being kind and understanding to the OP's rude friend.

But that's based on the assumption that if someone is rude and they don't accept that they're out of order when told, then they must be ND.

How do you think that assumption makes ND people feel?
Would you like any of the demographics you belong to to be stereotyped in that way?

Okay you win. I apologise.

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

I'm autistic and wouldn't dream of telling friends, who are engaged in a separate conversation, to shut up.

Ditto. I'm more likely to mentally analyse post social event to see if I think I went wrong somewhere socially. I can't imagine me shouting at anyone randomly like that, I cringe even thinking about it.

I think the two friends who were told to shut up need to address this with 'shut up' friend.

You have spoken with shut up lady and she was annoyed at the topic of conversation.

Not much more you can do. Leave them to sort it amongst themselves.

It’d be the lack of remorse that would be a problem for me.

Who is organising/booking the weekend? Maybe she needs to hear that people don't want to go away with her because they find her behaviour so rude.

Out of interest do you think there is any occasion when your friend would be justified in telling your other friends to shut up? If they were being racist or sexist? Or would that be out of order too? Is it possible that she felt uncomfortable with the topic of conversation in a public place and wanted to shut it down?