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Original poster

Restaurant row who is at fault?

297 replies

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 06:54

Out with friends in a restaurant last night - six of us in total. Two of my friends were light heatedly disagreeing about gender politics between them. They were not bothering anyone else.

Friend x suddenly shouts at them quite aggressively and loudly to ‘shut up’

Loud enough for the tables around us to stop and stare.

Would you think this is rude? She was not part of the conversation at the time.

The table sat in stunned silence after that. It’s now really awkward. She hasn’t apologised or acknowledged that shouting or shutting a conversation down like that isn’t cool. The friends in question seem offended.

What do you think? Do they have a point?
Are you okay with being told to shut up?

OP posts:
Sillyjane · 05/05/2024 08:01

If you’re really freinds and it was out of character as you say, I’d be concerned about her, if she had something going on. Not wondering how to ditch her and asking folks if she was rude. But hey, we all treat our friends differently.

Fulshaw · 05/05/2024 08:02

If it’s uncharacteristic behaviour from her, then I’d be a bit worried. Could you message her or meet her or something and see if she’s alright?

Tagyoureit · 05/05/2024 08:03

Well that does put a slightly different spin on it but if she feels that strongly about it, then maybe the debating 2 just didn't realise how annoying they are/can be when debating. Maybe that's why shouty friend thinks it's OK, she's finally had enough and expressed that albeit, quite rudely.

Maybe just give this weekend away a miss and see how that land lies in the future.

NinaPersson · 05/05/2024 08:04

Is it out of character for her to behave like that?

My in laws are very argumentative and like to debate topics, it’s exhausting and if I thought I had to endure these type of conversations for an hour or so at a restaurant never mind a weekend away I’d be considering not going either.

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Bobbybobbins · 05/05/2024 08:04

Not really answering your point directly but this is top of my list of topics not to discuss at dinner- such a challenging and emotive topic with lots of potential for upset.

CelesteCunningham · 05/05/2024 08:04

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/05/2024 07:14

It's a tricky one.

Your friend was definitely rude, there's no question about it.

But do your two friends who like to debate about gender perhaps need to read the room a bit? If there are six of you out for dinner and the two of them are dominating the conversation talking about something no one else wants to talk about, that's not great either.

Yes this.

She may also have been embarrassed at what was being overheard by other tables.

Did no one ask her what made her snap?

welshycake · 05/05/2024 08:05

35965a · 05/05/2024 08:01

This is it I think ^

Sounds like she’s had enough

Show quote history

Yeah I agree. And no shut up isn't the best way to handle it but had she tried changing the subject? Debating is fine but sometimes every day chit chat is important too

Halfheadhighlights · 05/05/2024 08:07

Agree with most of poster that gender politics is a rubbish topic to discuss on a Saturday night

I agree with shut up girl. It’s boring

CommentNow · 05/05/2024 08:07

So are you trying to gauge if its OK for yu all to go away without her?

MercyDulb0ttle · 05/05/2024 08:07

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 06:58

I didn’t say anything. I was shocked, I think I eventually asked her if she is okay.

You “think” you asked her if she was ok? Did you or didn’t you? Had you had a lot to drink?

CelesteCunningham · 05/05/2024 08:07

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 07:43

I guess my question is - is it ever okay to shout at a friend/ friends to shut up? They were definitely not being offensive or loud at all.

Its really put me off her tbh.

Edited

It's a subject where views on offensiveness vary massively though.

Valeriekat · 05/05/2024 08:07

Maybe you should let her know that people are uncomfortable about going away with her after her bahaviour and she might consider apologises because while SHE make think it was acceptable other people do not.

Salacia · 05/05/2024 08:07

I think this is one of those things that’s really difficult to comment on unless you were actually there. Maybe the friend who shouted is going through something that was being triggered by the debate but didn’t think she could confide in the rest of you as the topic is seen as dinner party banter. Maybe she was aware that somebody else in the restaurant was being upset by the conversation (which was potentially louder/more insulting than you perceived it to be). Maybe she was just bored of the debate and didn’t handle it well. Or maybe she was just very rude.

The fact that it seemed to be an unusual reaction/out of character/out of the usual group dynamics would make me suspicious that something was wrong - even if she doesn’t want to talk about it right now. You’re already deciding to leave her out of the group trip etc based on one incident so maybe you’re not the closest that she’d feel able to open up. I’m sure we’ve all done something at some point that wasn’t our best and I’d be cautious about throwing away a friendship on one comment (unless it was something truly horrific which doesn’t seem to be the case here, just rude). If there’s a pattern of behaviour that’s different (and maybe you’re just not compatible as a group anymore) but unless I’ve missed something whilst typing that doesn’t seem to be the case?

Northernparent68 · 05/05/2024 08:09

The problem with gender politics is there is no light hearted discussion, it’s divisive by nature. It’s also impossible for you to know they weren’t bothering anyone else.

fieldsofbutterflies · 05/05/2024 08:11

While loudly telling someone to shut up obviously isn't great manners, I actually don't think your two "debating" friends were being particularly polite either.

Dominating the table to have (yet another) debate about the same topic is also bloody rude and unnecessary.

DoreenonTill8 · 05/05/2024 08:12

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 07:56

The issue now is we are supposed to be booking a weekend away and a few of the group are now saying they are not sure about going now.

I just think she didn’t need to be so rude.

Sounds like she's had enough and you've already all got together and judged and juried her to decide you're all against her?
Agree with pp its not really friendly to have the first thought to bitch and ditch rather than see if she's OK?
Or is this a group with a hierarchy and she's stepped out of her role shouting at the Queen bee debaters?

vivainsomnia · 05/05/2024 08:15

There is much worse to say then 'shut up'. Maybe there is more going on in her life that you all know. If you are close friends and it was out of character as you say, maybe the priority should be to check she is ok?

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty · 05/05/2024 08:15

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 07:41

They really don’t solely talk about politics at all. It came up because of the local elections. The restaurant was really noisy and people were enjoying their own conversations at the time.

As far as I am aware she has no issues re GP and sometimes joins in and speaks about her views. Up to now she has been reasonable, she is outspoken most of the time.

It’s really out of character to be so rude though.
Telling our friends to shut up has really upset me as they looked shocked and offended. I asked her if she was okay, and she was snappy back at me as well.

Edited

Have you considered that if it was out of character she might have a good reason for behaving badly? It doesn't make it OK, but sometimes people have things happening.

You've moved directly to judgement.

Easipeelerie · 05/05/2024 08:19

You’ve got to have more examples of her behaving like this. Has she done anything similar in the past?

ClonedSquare · 05/05/2024 08:29

There's a group of women I'm on the fringes of. Both times I've gone out with them as a group, they've brought up and had the exact same discussion about trans issues. Aside from the fact it's a boring topic to talk on about, they were being bigoted about it. Phrases like "when I was at school, they were just allowed to be tomboys and lesbians" and "I'm worried my four year old will be told she's trans because she likes traditionally boys stuff" etc.

I was mortified and hoped no one else could hear what they were saying. I wish I'd had "shut up" girls courage to tell them to shut up.

LordPercyPercy · 05/05/2024 08:34

Aside from the fact it's a boring topic to talk on about, they were being bigoted about it. Phrases like "when I was at school, they were just allowed to be tomboys and lesbians" and "I'm worried my four year old will be told she's trans because she likes traditionally boys stuff" etc.

I don't see anything bigoted, or wrong, with either of those statements?

35965a · 05/05/2024 08:34

ClonedSquare · 05/05/2024 08:29

There's a group of women I'm on the fringes of. Both times I've gone out with them as a group, they've brought up and had the exact same discussion about trans issues. Aside from the fact it's a boring topic to talk on about, they were being bigoted about it. Phrases like "when I was at school, they were just allowed to be tomboys and lesbians" and "I'm worried my four year old will be told she's trans because she likes traditionally boys stuff" etc.

I was mortified and hoped no one else could hear what they were saying. I wish I'd had "shut up" girls courage to tell them to shut up.

Not really a good dinner conversation but what they say isn’t bigoted.

Hereyoume · 05/05/2024 08:35

Well clearly your two friends discussion was bothering at least one person.

Createausername1970 · 05/05/2024 08:43

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 07:59

Tried to approach friend x and she says it’s no big deal she was just expressing herself authentically. She doesn’t seem to see that yelling shut up at two adults who were chatting is not standard. Not in our group anyway!

She seems to think it’s fine, that’s the issue.

If you are communicating ok with X (I am assuming you are as she has told you she can't see what the problem is), then go back to her and say that A and B are actually not happy about they way they were spoken to, and can X please sort this out direct with A and B because, unfortunately, it's affecting the dynamic of the group and whether or not we can book the planned weekend away.

Let them sort it out between themselves. Don't get involved, don't take sides.

froggirl · 05/05/2024 08:43

Polishedshoesalways · 05/05/2024 07:43

I guess my question is - is it ever okay to shout at a friend/ friends to shut up? They were definitely not being offensive or loud at all.

Its really put me off her tbh.

Edited

No there aren't many situations where it's OK to shout at friends.

But from what you've said about her normal behaviour, it sounds like it was out of character.

She might be going through something you don't know about. There's normally a reason underlying people having outbursts like this/ out of character behaviour.