Restaurant row who is at fault?

[Polishedshoesalways]

Out with friends in a restaurant last night - six of us in total. Two of my friends were light heatedly disagreeing about gender politics between them. They were not bothering anyone else.

Friend x suddenly shouts at them quite aggressively and loudly to ‘shut up’

Loud enough for the tables around us to stop and stare.

Would you think this is rude? She was not part of the conversation at the time.

The table sat in stunned silence after that. It’s now really awkward. She hasn’t apologised or acknowledged that shouting or shutting a conversation down like that isn’t cool. The friends in question seem offended.

What do you think? Do they have a point?
Are you okay with being told to shut up?

I would never discuss issues that could be controversial amongst a group of friends, as it never ends well. But I wouldnt have shouted at them to shut up. It could have been done in a more respectful way, by holding off til in a private place, and letting them know that it’s triggering or inappropriate for your friend to listen to them.

We were in a buzzy restaurant, I could barely hear them and was sitting one person away. They can speak normally, we don’t need to whisper that we expect more from political parties for women. Nothing contentious about that subject at all. I think they were disagreeing over the Green Party policy at the time but in a very calm way.

I'd say unless everyone was always very boisterous and saying 'shut up' was a regular occurrence, not meant in anger or malice.
But it sounds like this is far from the case. In a restaurant so that others turned around? Very rude. This happened in my friendship group around Christmas. One lady told another to shut up, then they didn't speak to eachother for the rest of the meal! Awkward as they were opposite eachother on the table, and we didn't want to 'take sides'. I tried to comfort both of them but the stress really ruined the ambience and I ended up getting sick with anxiety on the way home!

Yeah fair enough

I’m going to guess friend may be neurodiverse.

Yes this is exactly what happened! How did the group manage afterwards? I am really quite anxious about it, and she doesn’t seem bothered.

Okay - why do you think that? She is too the point most of the time, but not usually snappy and rude like this.

From the personality traits youve mentioned and how she has acted since, it strikes me as a possibility. There will be many adults who are ND and undiagnosed as it just wasn’t a thing when we were younger.

She may have noticed a trans person in the restaurant, one of her dc may be going through something, she may be having gender issues herself, it doesn't sound like any if you would be people she would tell if anything was going on if you've all been rehashing the same gc views for 30 years.

You do realise that virtually no one believed people could change sex or were born in the wrong body 30 years ago? It wasn't even on the horizon. Gender ideology is a very recent thing, outside a small cohort of queer theory academics in obscure university departments..

What like ADHD or autism? She is hyper, talks very quickly. A big personality and tells everyone exactly how it is.

There's a possibility something else is worrying her, ie medical or financial issues?

Look up some traits of both conditions and see what you think. I don’t know her. She could be a narcissist for all I know. All I can tell you is to scream shut up to friends in a restaurant and have no ability to look back at that behaviour and consider it atypical, would make me think there was more going on.

Why are you trying to diagnose her by Internet?

So people having conversations have to be mind readers? And people have a right to be rude when they're offended?

Thanks for the lesson 👍 🥱

The other four grown arse adults can have their own conversation.

Two people were enjoying their chat and didn't need a third person telling them they couldn't.

Anyway, I wonder if there's something else going on in the person's life....

Surely not tp shut up - that's very rude. Perhaps intervene and turn the subject?

I think the conversation has triggered her. Whether she's going through it herself or knows someone who is.
No real solution offered here I'm afraid, but perhaps ask her if she is ok?

Rude, chavvy, uneducated and immature behavior.
how hard is it to say ‘ok let’s talk about something else now’.
I don’t discuss things like that but would have stood for such disrespect.

i know a friend who is similar, if its a group discussion and they are listening but not actively discussing sometimes they prefer none of use discuss the topic, its puzzling at times

Your friend was very rude.
Why would you invite her to join you for dinner again?

Censorship of adults who were politely discussing differing points of view about anything is out of line.
The other patrons were clearly not bothered by the conversation..though were alarmed by Shouty Bully.

@Polishedshoesalways are you sure we don't know eachother, lol?!
I think the two of which I spoke did kiss and make up, but I have to say I haven't seen either of them since so they could still be 'fallen out'.
The best you can do is be supportive and try and stop their friendship from falling apart. But it's up to them ultimately. For me I would be a bit peeved, but would move on from being told to 'shut up'. Probably as I actually do need to shut up a lot of the time!

Read the updates but not the whole thread. I can understand feeling impatient at the direction of a conversation that is boring my to tears and I can't ignore because it's too loud, especially if it's one about politics that I've heard a hundred times.

But if I snapped like that, I would definitely apologise and explain as much! It's rude, no matter how anyone spins it. She's free to express herself, but she doesn't seem sorry about the impact of her words on others.

She can't dictate conversation topics. If she doesn't want to hear it then she should consider withdrawing from the group and seeing you all on a mid individual basis.

If she won't apologise or see what she's done, I think holding off on hanging out together like the holiday is the thing to do until feelings are smoothed over a bit. And then see how you all get on again.

Dear God! She sounds awful. I bet she does not like people ' expressing themselves authentically' to her, by telling her she's a rude obnoxious twat.

SHe needs to grow up. Being in a group means other people may be having conversations you find boring or don' t like. Being an adult means putting up with that.