Restaurant row who is at fault?

[Polishedshoesalways]

Out with friends in a restaurant last night - six of us in total. Two of my friends were light heatedly disagreeing about gender politics between them. They were not bothering anyone else.

Friend x suddenly shouts at them quite aggressively and loudly to ‘shut up’

Loud enough for the tables around us to stop and stare.

Would you think this is rude? She was not part of the conversation at the time.

The table sat in stunned silence after that. It’s now really awkward. She hasn’t apologised or acknowledged that shouting or shutting a conversation down like that isn’t cool. The friends in question seem offended.

What do you think? Do they have a point?
Are you okay with being told to shut up?

That is just what I was thinking but couldn’t put my finger on it. It felt like more than just an outburst. I am not aware of friction but I wish she would just talk about it, if there is an issue. Rather than shout stuff like that.

It does feel like it’s coming between us. Two have said they are not up for the trip as things stand. One said she is on the fence. It’s caused a bit of a rupture. It’s a shame..

It sounds like she felt excluded from the conversations going on around her and felt the only way to get "heard" was to shout.

Is it a nice way to speak to people? No, not really, but sometimes people snap and it doesn't have to be anything more than that.

Yes it sounds like she wasn't part of any conversation and you were all discussing other stuff whilst actively ignoring her?

No, she was talking about the summer a few minutes before. I don’t think she felt excluded from all of us. The two discussing GP were talking about policies. It didn’t seem exclusive and anyone could have joined in. But obviously this anger didn’t come out of nowhere.

There were 3 other people at the table she could have discussed another topic with.
Demanding a conversation you're not even involved in be shut down because you don't want to discuss it is rude, no matter how you try to spin it.

I felt sorry for the other two, it was embarrassing.

There's a certain type of GC person who thinks everything they say is so unique and groundbreaking, they repeat their views constantly, and it's honestly just tedious. If they have been having these discussions for 30 years I'm surprised she didn't snap sooner tbh.

She may have noticed a trans person in the restaurant, one of her dc may be going through something, she may be having gender issues herself, it doesn't sound like any if you would be people she would tell if anything was going on if you've all been rehashing the same gc views for 30 years.

For a group who loves debating you all seem pretty sensitive for the group to be fractured over a "Shut up".

I'm sure they were. It's totally unacceptable.
I wonder if the responses you've received here OP would have been the same if you'd said the topic of conversation had been movies/sport/fashion/baking or any other subject and Friend X had shouted loudly at them to shut up?
I'm guessing no.

I just don’t get the drama. Yea it was rude, but it was out of character. Al, the drama of we can’t go on a trip now. If one of my friends did this id be like fuck, you ok, what caused the outburst.id speak to her next day and say you ok. What happened.

id honestly take more of an issue with the friends who came over all sensitive drama llama and decided they couldn’t go away as they were now oh so uncomfortable

I think this is a classic 'you had to be there' OP. Hence the variety of responses. We're probably all imagining different tones of voice/facial expression/ body language from both parties.

"Im just expressing myself authentically."

TBH I'd avoid anyone who who talks like that. It's just rudeness dressed up as some self indulgent empowerment crap

If she didn't like their topic she could have talked to any of the other members of your dining party about something else. Telling them to shut up is rude and yelling it to embarrass them in front of other diners makes it worse. I'd be giving her a wide berth till she gets her manners back and apologises.

I would not want to spend time with someone who treated her friends like that.

If you’re confident enough, I’d tell her.

You could say “when you shouted ‘shut up’, you effectively shut the evening down and left everyone uncomfortable and upset”.

There are so many other ways to let people know you don’t like a topic and don’t want to hear it again. Shouting “shut up” loud enough that the whole restaurant turned around is bizarre and incredibly rude. If you’d done that to a child, you’d be a shit parent - doing it to a friend makes you a shit friend.

Sounds like your friend is struggling living on her own and has somewhat lost the plot. Who in their right mind leans across the table and rudely shuts down someone else’s conversation? Nobody in their fifties that’s who, and the fact that she is doubling down makes her sound like a bully wanting her own way.
She needs to own up and apologise to clear the air.
All that bollocks ‘calling a spade a spade’ is just a way of saying ‘I’ll be as rude as I like.’ She can be, but doesn’t mean that everyone needs to tolerate it.

I’m the opposite, if it’s someone I care enough about to call a friend, and it was out of character, I’d ask why and what happened, not just end the friendship immediately.

For me, the topic is irrelevant - there's no need for anyone to constantly re-hash the same conversation in one form or another for near-on thirty years.

Exactly. It's quite sad to me that so many people would rush to end a 30+ year friendship over this, rather than being concerned that their friend wasn't okay.

She was unreasonable for causing a scene in the restaurant. Whatever was going on, she could have handled it better.

Your friend is a dickhead and there's no way I'd be policed about what topics I am allowed to discuss with other friends.

If she's that bothered maybe she should hand out her approved list of conversations that people are allowed to engage in, since she is apparently the conversation police.

I would not be going out with her ever again- there are multiple ways to move a conversation on without shouting rudely at people like a twat.

Her behaviour was unacceptable but there must have been something in the conversation to trigger her and cause her to snap. It was clearly making her uncomfortable so I feel like the two having the conversation are probably partially at fault aswell. Thinking back over the conversation was there anything that you can think of that was offensive/ might make someone uncomfortable?

Was alcohol a feature of the evening? If so, I’d shrug it off and not worry about it any more. It may all feel very different by mid week

She’s clearly has had her last nerve shredded by the incessant discussions.

pick your audience and yes, do shut up on a night out, it’s obviously tedious.

No one is ‘ending’ friendships.

You may not be, but other posters on this thread are saying they'd end the friendship over this.

How loud was their conversation? Were other people in the restaurant overhearing it?

I have since checked in with her, and she seems oblivious or indifferent to the fact she has upset the others. She said she was being true to her own feelings, she had expected a different kind of evening and was annoyed. I am not sure what different even means?! She said she felt the others ‘bang on’ too much about the subject ( they really don’t, but in any event it’s up to them! ) I said it sounds almost like controlling the conversation if you are going to tell them to shut up, and she kind of shrugged it off as them being too sensitive!

She really doesn’t see there is a problem, and definitely no underlying issues or apologies forthcoming.

i am even more pissed off now.