That The La Leche League have dangerously lost the plot?

[WandsOut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13372909/breastfeeding-charity-bullying-trans-women-row.html

www.msn.com/en-nz/entertainment/music/breastfeeding-charity-suspends-trustees-who-want-to-ban-trans-women-from-its-services/ar-AA1nZKUU

They have always been inclusive of biological women who identify as trans men and also non binary.

But allowing men who identify as women into their sessions whilst vulnerable women are learning how to breastfeed? Seriously? And what about women like myself from a faith that doesn't permit men to be in intimate spaces with women? What about women like myself who are survivors of domestic abuse who had to learn to breastfeed whilst making symptoms of PTSD.
I don't want biological males hijacking these services for women!!!! It makes me feel unsafe, traumatised and afraid for my daughters.

Why is LLL suddenly falling over themselves to accommodate men with fetishes for lactation?

I feel like I'm going crazy when I read what's happening to places like LLL and Girl Guides.

Why are people so dangerously naive now?

@BalletCat

Dress as a woman

Are women less of a woman if they wear jeans and a t shirt and hoodie all the time and never wear dresses?

wear makeup

Are women less of a woman if they never wear make up?

behave as woman

Can you give a few specific examples of what this means?

do all the things biological women do

As above, can you give a few specific examples of what this means?

Lesbians still have female names and behave like women

Same question as above.

I did some research on this one because I think the facts are important. There was a study with low participant rates that have successfully induced lactation with a regimen of medication. In the studies there was no reported risk to the baby ingesting this milk but the volume was insufficient. The medication was funded by the participant- but I can’t remember what the cost was or if there were any side effects.

I am not sure of the motivation of the participant as I didn’t look at the politics, but I don’t think this treatment would be accessible to other trans women and should not be an expectation of transitioning.

I personally believe that the political interventions done on behalf of trans people (especially those with debilitating and persistent dysphoria) has actually harmed them in the long run.

It is the slippery slope of permitting men into women’s spaces. it makes me absolutely furious.

I am an average woman - I’m not troubled by ptsd from abuse, I’m not a religious person. But I object in the absolute strongest terms to being obliged to reveal my breasts and discuss my breastfeeding difficulties in a space shared with a random man. If that makes me a transphobe, I am happy to be labelled as such. I own the label with pride, as a feminist and a defender of my sex.

Breastfeeding should remain a uniquely female experience, it is that simple. Males feeding babies chemically induced secretions is a perversion.

A women-only spin-off/splinter charity would be a good idea, just cut out the lunatics and start afresh.

There is absolutely no innocent reason for a transwoman to attend a breastfeeding class. They're biologically male. They can't get pregnant. They can't breastfeed without an enormous amount of medication, at which point they'll probably need specialist help that a group aimed at a biologically female function can't give.

It's fucking weird to even entertain the notion, and fucking awful for the new mothers expected to share one of the most biologically female spaces possible with them

Is this satire?

I think I've just discovered that, despite pushing a human out of my birth canal, I'm not actually a woman.

The only thing that makes me a woman is my biology. I have a unisex name, I live in jeans, flat shoes and boots and t-shirts, very rarely wear makeup, and I don't actually know what 'behave as a woman' means. I work in a male dominated industry, and enjoy primarily male dominated hobbies.

...

Am I a man? Can I get a pay rise?

Obviously I don't think child abuse is acceptable. Go wind someone else up.

I've seen it. It's been largely decried as someone taking the piss to get attention. They haven't been heard from since or made any effort to make it happen.

I don't know any genuine trans people who call having sex with a trans woman "gay sex" do you? All this person is doing is acting stupid to get attention and making life harder for trans people who just want to get on with their lives. Sadly so many take the bait and think all trans people are perverts.

I honestly cannot believe that anyone is defending this. What the hell is wrong with people? This is involving newborn babies in men's fetishes. It's is absolutely disgusting.

Do I? Because it's clear to me that the post I quoted was saying that there isn't enough milk to sustain a child anyway so why bother. With no other mention of why it would be wrong in their eyes, just no point in bothering because there's not enough milk for the effort to be worth it.

This.

To everyone taking the piss out of "act like a woman" as someone who is not a trans woman I clearly can't explain it effectively but that is the way it has been explained to me by all the trans women I have ever met. When they act like and are accepted as a female, they feel 'right'. When they act like a man to fit in they feel 'wrong'. It's not my experience so I can't explain it any better than that.

Obviously no one is saying that women who have been abused should be exposed to men in female spaces. Anyone saying that is being deliberately obtuse.

People saying all trans women are men in dresses with perverted fetishes are just uninformed and nasty.

The absolute hatred of trans people on MN is disgusting. I stand by the fact that it is such a non issue (less than 1% of the population is trans and many people have never even encountered a trans person, and all the trans people I have ever met have been repeated victims of violence, not perpetrators of violence) that I can't understand why there needs to be a hysterical pearl clutching trans bashing thread three times a week.

I also stand by the fact that random men aren't using LLL meetings to wonder in off the street and ogle at tits. People are deliberately blowing it out of proportion to make it as ridiculous as possible, as usual with trans issues on MN. I have literally never seen a trans woman in a changing room. The trans women I do know use the disabled or family because the don't feel safe in the men's and dont want to make women uncomfortable. They don't feel like they belong anywhere and just want to be accepted, not ogle women. Rapists using the guise of being trans to get into women's spaces IS NOT a trans issue, it is a rapist issue. By continually hating on trans people you're all missing the point and laying into people who are already vulnerable and persecuted while actual rapists are not being called out for what they are.

You're all being hateful individuals and the prejudice shown on this and every other trans thread is disgusting and clearly no one has any interest in researching the issue or seeing any other point of view. So fuck this, I'm out. It's really sad because usually I don't waste my time on these threads because its inevitable it will end like this but just ignoring prejudice makes us as bad as the people doling it out, wish I hadn't bothered.

@BalletCat Cannot get my head around you being angry with the people drawing attention to the child abuse because it makes the nice trans women look bad.

Exactly. Not a care at all shown for the babies, so grim.

I just don't actually believe "trans women" are a type of woman, just like you, I think @BalletCat. That's all. The difference is that I don't think they should ever be treated as women. I simply don't share your ideology and I'm not required to give up my own rights to make male people feel more comfortable. Why would you think that was fair?

People saying all trans women are men in dresses with perverted fetishes are just uninformed and nasty.

Who has said all of them are? I've not seen it. There are a range of reasons, autogynephilia/fetishism being one. There hasn't been enough research done to see how much of the overall "trans woman" population they are.

I'm not anywhere near as informed as many of the women on this post, but I just can't get my head round how biological men feel that they are women, without ever having been one? The vast majority of trans women do not go through gender reassignment, so essentially all they are changing is the way they look and sound. Being a woman is far, far beyond this. Women have a biological ability to breastfeed, some choose not to, and some can't, and that is fine, but a biological male inducing lactation so they can give a child the smallest amount if milk that isn't really going to benefit them is performative, and in my opinion a bit gross.

And trans women absolutely do use women's changing rooms. I remember very clearly when it happened to me in my early 20s at the gym and I was shocked and very scared. I was alone, in my underwear with a naked man. That is not ok. This was before it was talked about in the media. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

There is no valid social or human rights movement that can be used as a cover by abusers, child abusers, or rapists.
If your movement finds itself fighting for the rights of abusive men, or giving them rights they shouldn't have, you are the problem. You need to stop what you are doing and work out how to exclude those men from your movement.

What really gets me about all this is that as soon as a women gets pregnant (and even before) she is told what she should and shouldn't do, especially with regard to alcohol, medicine, food and exercise - for the good of the baby.

A male bodied person comes along and wants to "chest feed" and is given drugs to facilitate that which could easily have a bad effect in the baby.

It's almost like all the "rules" for pregnant and breastfeeding women are about controlling women and not about the baby at all...

@BalletCat I don't want to derail the thread but I had to laugh when you said "I don't know any genuine trans people who call having sex with a trans woman "gay sex" do you?"

I don't know if you have many gay friends but my gay mates have said it's quite common on Grindr for men to look for other gay men or transwomen. All the gay men I know are very fond of dick.

Next time you're out when a gay man ask him to do a search - you'll see exactly what I mean.

Being trans is about gender stereotyping. Lets sort that out, rather than agreeing with a male bodied person that he must be a woman because he wants to wear a dress.

Being trans is about gender stereotyping. Lets sort that out, rather than agreeing with a male bodied person that he must be a woman because he wants to wear a dress.

Indeed.

I have no trans friends or interact with any trans people. However, if my manager Bob decided to transition tomorrow and turn up on Monday as Roberta, I would be obliged to share toilets with him and his penis under my company's "inclusive" policies. If I refused, I could lose my job.

Trans inclusive policies and accommodations hurt all women by removing single-sex spaces, removing privacy, dignity and safety for women along with them.

It’s beyond ridiculous.

Men pretending to be women accessing groups for breastfeeding women and their babies. How is this logical?

It’s just mind boggling.

It isn't. But somehow large numbers of useful idiots have been co-opted to tell us it's their 'human right' 🙄