To be worrying about these children in my local park?

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

They seem to be there every time I go, never with a parent or guardian, usually playing by the pond. I mostly see them at weekends or late afternoon, but they have been there on school days too.

They are really lovely children, very well spoken and like to play with my DC. I just can't help but worry about them. They are brothers and sisters, a 12 year old girl, and boys aged 9, 5 and 4. They have told me they live around the corner and are allowed to play in the park.

I have chatted to them lots as they like to help the DC with feeding the ducks, but they have often eaten the bread themselves. They are always very muddy and dressed in worn out, too small clothes. I've bought them all ice creams from the cafe before and shared picnics and they seem ravenous.

Am I just being suspicious, or is it possible they are being neglected? I hate to judge and consider myself very liberal but I think children of this age shouldn't be allowed free rein in a city park (we are in London)

My children play unattended in the park and have done since they were about seven. It is quite near us, though. It's fairly normal where we live. I tend to send them out in old clothes so they can run around without worrying. If someone reported my children to SS I'd be dumbfounded. That said, they're not usually bare-foot or bleeding and everyone knows whose children they are (oh dear!)

My mother once witnessed my daughter playing in the gutter with barefeet. She was very amused. We are posh people. My son's name is Mungo. But we like the gutter and interesting games involving mud.

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That's the media at fault Doodle, for irresponsible reporting - and spin - and god knows what passes for news these days

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No worries. The stats I am thinkling about are om child abduction by a stranger - not on abuse within the home or child sex trafficking around the world. And I can only remember that they had remained stable ove the last 40-50 years I don;t have them to hand.

There might be a new consensus - which is something the media don't often find out - they report on numerous reports but ignore the contexts and what the current scientific consensus is. I hate the way the worst (but most) common media make sus cynical about the thinsg that matter most - politics and science especially.

The PC consensus is that the end of the world is nigh in every fact of life and what's more, we deserve it. We are such a bunch of masochists these days.

Thedevil- I think the idea of asking them to play is a really good one too.
Is it Tooting Common? I used to live near there, and tbh would never have let the kids play there on their own....

At the risk of dampening the thread... having head bitten of...blah blah, there is a whispers very quietly, but this is a valid point I promise so please be nice....Steiner school very near... they think children have guardian angels watching them...and if somethng happens it was karmic destiny... they are renowed for careless childcare...a9 and of course speaking nicely)

OMG

Actually saying which common it is might just put them a bit more at risk..dunno..

I don;t think I would let them play on their own either - but I only have 1 child not 4 so have never had a 'just get out of my sight' moment that my mother often had.

Monkey yes- you're right- shouldn't have asked which common

Not picking on you - a few others have ventuerd too - and I was thinking of doing so myself, having lived in Tooting Broadway - so trumped myself, not you as it were..

s'okay- I get picked on for bringing up the S word so am used to it.

I have a 13 yr old, and wouldn't want her to have the responsibility of looking after her younger sisters.
I don't think it's fair.
But then again, i was babysitting at night with a friend at 13.5, and in the past, everyone didit. Looked after siblings. it was part and parcel of being the oldeer sibling. and then there were also the priviliges of being the older sibling too.
Now, everything is so excrutiatingly fair, it doesn't happen I suppose.
I feel lucky if my kids load the dishwasher or hoover- and then they expect to be paid too....

I take your S point, northernrefugee, and it might explain a bit about that particular group of children.

what will you do dwp if there is no response from your note?

i do think you should do something personally.
mum might need some help.

I was often in charge of my younger brothers and sisters at the age of 12. I don't remember taking them to the park at that age, but at 14 I would have a whole load of them down the park, and we used to make bows and arrows, play football, run and around and generally be wild. I often ended up looking after neighbourhood children as well - yet my mum is at the neurotic end of the parenting scale.

My two youngest brothers are 11 and 13, and they go off with bikes and skateboards in filthy clothes, and play out on their own or with friends. Anyone seeing them would think they were abandoned waifs and strays, but sending them out in their best clothes would be utterly pointless. And yes, they would eat anything they were given, although not from a stranger! There could be many explanations here, and I agree with tdwp that I would not want to report someone to social services unless I had a very clear reason to.

I didn't see them in the park today, not sure as it's school holidays for some children here, but not all. No doubt I will see them at the weekend.

I want to pos responding to the few hysterical posts on here but am far too tired to compose my thoughts so will do so later.

thedevilwears, I think you're really absolutely right to keep an eye, I certainly would. If there weren't much younger children it might be different, which is why I feel the arguments about free range children don't hold much water. These kids are very young, and if an accident or something happened, it's a dreadful responsibility for a child to deal with.

(Just another point on the S thing- Steiner schools have strange hours too- the kids don't go full time for ages- they still have half days a week up until about 10 I think,)

Ha, this thread has reminded me, last summer I used a 12-year-old babysitter (friend's daughter - paid) to mind my two in a local park - mine were nearly-6 and nearly-3.

But then again, she brought them back after an hour as she was having trouble coping.

Hopefully she'll do better this year!

The op says 'They have been there on school days too' but I am just wondering if you know that for a fact. You say they are well-spoken - maybe they might go to private school and have incredibly long holidays? Or even the state schools' holidays are very staggered this year.

That said, I agree the 12 year old shouldn't have to be in charge of the 4 year old, but if they live in a family where they have taken a key role in the childcare, they may be almost as good as a parent in most situations.

I think the best idea is possibly the one of asking them what school they go to and if necessary speaking to a teacher there and seeing what their take on the family is.

In general my opinion is that we mollycoddle (sp?) our children too much and they should have more freedom.

this thread is so interesting

we used to play out and go round to the park-everyone did.

the dangers from sitting in front of the tv and eating crisps are MUCH greater than going to the park alone

Filly- I think most people would agree with you on that

My take is that if it was a group of same sort of age kids mucking around it would be different.
I feel two things about it- one , that 12 is quite young to be "in charge" of younger siblings, and two, the school thing, never a parent, might mean there's something behind it.
Although there have been several possible explanations for the school idea- they could even be home educated.

Me and my brother and sister used to play out without adult supervision when he were younger than this - maybe 5, 8 and 9. All the time too, after school til dark as well as weekends. We just had to be back for meals and not cross any big roads. When I was 12 I was taking a neighbour's toddler in buggy down to the park along with my siblings.

Seems like things have changed a lot in recent years. There was a woman in the Guardian recently whose neighbour called Social Services because she let her 7yo walk to school on his own

Rah Rah- yes- I read that article and wa shocked. But I can't remeber the reaction of social services though, can you?

I used to play out until teatime/got dark when I was about 6 and this was in Bradford when the yorkshire ripper was doing his awful killings.

Statistics mean nothing - 1 in however many is irrelevant if your child is that one.

BTW 2 women have been arrested over the abduction of Shannon Matthews.

Social services advised against it. I think the child in question was actually 8, maybe? And the mum was walking in the same direction at the same time - just not right with her child.

statistics don't mean nothing
statistics give us some factual information on which to base our own risk assessments as parents
I don't think any of us aim to wipe out risk to our children in any other area of their lives other than play? We would feel it an unnecessary infringement of our freedom if we tried. Travelling in a car or on a bike, is much more dangerous than playing in the park unsupervised, yet we wouldn't seek to eradicate these activities from our children's lives - we feel the benefits outweigh the risks.