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AIBU?

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Original poster

Brother has swindled DM out of over £100k- desperate advice please

476 replies

Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:10

Sorry I’m posting in aibu for traffic.

this is long, you may remember such threads as brother Pretended to dying DF to be in the navy to get money, pretend to be in mi6, threatened me with a multi billion £ law suit for saying he doesn’t have a PhD (he literally doesn’t, so it’s a stupid lie)

well DF died a few years ago and it’s been just dm, she lives 2/3 hrs away from my, brother lives closer. She works part time (20hrs a week) and gets my dads old pension and hers, which I’ve totalled as around £3.5k per month (no mortgage just bills). She’s been frequently crying to me she’s not got any money, I thought she was having me on a bit, but I had suspicions brother had claws in. Well she was visiting yesterday and broke down from not being able to pay her bills, she just kept repeating she’s not earning enough now, which she clearly is. The bills were only a few hundred too and she’s not the type to ask for money. I got quite concerned, and I noticed constant phone calls and texts coming in from brother. Now he’s the type that doesn’t contact unless he needs or wants something.

she went to the loo, and I snooped. I know it’s a total break of trust but I was genuinely concerned. I saw a list she’d wrote to him when he was telling her she was dead to him because she couldn’t give him £4k at the drop of a hat. The list went from 2019-2022 (so not even the last 18 months) and it detailed how she’d given him £120k over that time. He’s been going on luxurious holidays in that time. In a legal dispute with his ex. But he’s taking her to the cleaners and im genuinely worried. I looks like pure coercive control and an abusive relationship.

thing is i can’t tell her I looked and saw what I saw. She won’t take kindly to me calling social services or the police to talk with her, it will likely push her further to him.

shes 73 and he’s taken probably £150k at least

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Montymorency · 02/05/2024 09:14

you can raise safeguarding for financial abuse with the local authority

cardibach · 02/05/2024 09:16

Can you ask her to go through her expenditure with you so you can help her budget for her bills? That would expose a big hole which gives you an opening.

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:17

Montymorency · 02/05/2024 09:14

you can raise safeguarding for financial abuse with the local authority

I’m worried with anything with ‘the authorities’ she’ll know it’s me, deny it and then probably push her more to him and then she’ll be more isolated

OP posts:
Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:19

cardibach · 02/05/2024 09:16

Can you ask her to go through her expenditure with you so you can help her budget for her bills? That would expose a big hole which gives you an opening.

See I did try this and what she does is bring the paper bills, and then just repeat it’s not enough money and get panicked. She won’t get online banking

I was debating calling the bank but that actually won’t do anything because a) they won’t take me seriously and b) it’s not fraud she actually wants to send the money to him

OP posts:
AutumnFroglets · 02/05/2024 09:19

Offer to legally take over her finances/paying bills and get a POA. Might be a wise thing to have in place at her age anyway. That would be one way to protect her.

The obvious answer though is police and SS as this is abusive on many fronts including elder abuse and I think you should seriously consider it even if she lets you take over her accounts/bills.

If she refuses then its time to say why bother telling you these things if she won't let you help. Sorry OP, sounds shit.

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:19

if i called the police and said I think he’s exploiting her, what could they do?

OP posts:
Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:21

AutumnFroglets · 02/05/2024 09:19

Offer to legally take over her finances/paying bills and get a POA. Might be a wise thing to have in place at her age anyway. That would be one way to protect her.

The obvious answer though is police and SS as this is abusive on many fronts including elder abuse and I think you should seriously consider it even if she lets you take over her accounts/bills.

If she refuses then its time to say why bother telling you these things if she won't let you help. Sorry OP, sounds shit.

She refuses everything but as you said it’s like text book abuse and the reason abuse is so insidious is because the person doesn’t know they’re being abused some of the time, and when he gets something from her he does the classic love bombing

OP posts:
Luxell934 · 02/05/2024 09:21

If she’s mentally competent then the police or you can’t do anything. It’s a non starter.

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:22

Luxell934 · 02/05/2024 09:21

If she’s mentally competent then the police or you can’t do anything. It’s a non starter.

Yeah that’s what I thought, but what about on him, if he’s the focus for abusing her

OP posts:
AutumnFroglets · 02/05/2024 09:23

I don't know, but you see many court cases where carers or family members are prosecuted. You won't get the money back, they might not even be jailed, but they WILL be stopped and your mother won't be worrying herself sick when she's 90.

EDIT - You have to start somewhere. Go to AgeConcern, your local adult care, and your local police and ask for their advice and what support you can put in place, rather than report. Be lead by them perhaps?

OrangeSlices998 · 02/05/2024 09:24

How does she send him money if she doesn’t do online banking? Is she manually going into the bank each time?

What does she say if you say ‘Mum, you’ve got £3.5k coming in each month, the bills are not that much, have you sent any money to anyone or withdrawn it?’ Because if she doesn’t remember sending it to him or genuinely has no clue where it’s gone then I think you’d need to involve SS because then the question is around capacity

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:24

AutumnFroglets · 02/05/2024 09:23

I don't know, but you see many court cases where carers or family members are prosecuted. You won't get the money back, they might not even be jailed, but they WILL be stopped and your mother won't be worrying herself sick when she's 90.

EDIT - You have to start somewhere. Go to AgeConcern, your local adult care, and your local police and ask for their advice and what support you can put in place, rather than report. Be lead by them perhaps?

Edited

You know what I actually want to do? It’s hire someone to beat him up, I can’t and won’t but imagine being this vile

OP posts:
sandyhappypeople · 02/05/2024 09:26

I don’t understand why she is constantly complaining to you though, she obviously knows where the money is going..

are you sure she’s not complaining so you’ll investigate and find out on your own without her having to ‘tell’ on your brother?

you do need to do more about this, and perhaps force the issue, can you tell how she is getting the money to your brother? Does she make cash withdrawals? Or go in To the bank and send him money?

AutumnFroglets · 02/05/2024 09:27

I edited my post. But I understand and hear your frustration Flowers

Hols24 · 02/05/2024 09:27

I would try calling Age UK for advice. Hopefully they'd know where to point you for help.

www.ageuk.org.uk/services/age-uk-advice-line/

Hereforthedramaz · 02/05/2024 09:28

Could you offer to help her with budgeting?

A useful exercise for normal reasons and gives you the chance to "find" the payments to brother and react.

This is aside from trying to do something about the £150k but hopefully might stop it going forward?

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:33

sandyhappypeople · 02/05/2024 09:26

I don’t understand why she is constantly complaining to you though, she obviously knows where the money is going..

are you sure she’s not complaining so you’ll investigate and find out on your own without her having to ‘tell’ on your brother?

you do need to do more about this, and perhaps force the issue, can you tell how she is getting the money to your brother? Does she make cash withdrawals? Or go in To the bank and send him money?

I think she’s panicking that all their savings is going down and really sadly I think he’s doing it to make him love her

she calls phone banking and does a transfer

OP posts:
newyorkhotel · 02/05/2024 09:34

sandyhappypeople · 02/05/2024 09:26

I don’t understand why she is constantly complaining to you though, she obviously knows where the money is going..

are you sure she’s not complaining so you’ll investigate and find out on your own without her having to ‘tell’ on your brother?

you do need to do more about this, and perhaps force the issue, can you tell how she is getting the money to your brother? Does she make cash withdrawals? Or go in To the bank and send him money?

I agree with this- surely if she has full capacity of her mind, she must know the money has all gone to him and thats exactly why she doesnt have enough?

So that begs the question- why is she telling you?

Either: She knows full well where its going, is distressed about it and deeply embarrassed and wants help from you without actually spelling out that your brother is financially abusing her in which case I would report it

Or: she is having some kind of cognitive decline and is confused about the money and is forgetting where its going in which case again, you need to report it as financial abuse

This scenario doesnt make sense as if she knows its going to your brother and its causing her financial harm and genuinely doesnt want you interfering then she wouldnt be constantly mentioning it to you- it would be shrouded in secrecy. I would see this as a cry for help on her part.

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:35

OrangeSlices998 · 02/05/2024 09:24

How does she send him money if she doesn’t do online banking? Is she manually going into the bank each time?

What does she say if you say ‘Mum, you’ve got £3.5k coming in each month, the bills are not that much, have you sent any money to anyone or withdrawn it?’ Because if she doesn’t remember sending it to him or genuinely has no clue where it’s gone then I think you’d need to involve SS because then the question is around capacity

She definitely knows she’s giving it him but I’ve been saying for years he’s trying to take money from you, and he’s stolen tens of thousands before, jewellery so he’s got form for all of this

OP posts:
Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:37

newyorkhotel · 02/05/2024 09:34

I agree with this- surely if she has full capacity of her mind, she must know the money has all gone to him and thats exactly why she doesnt have enough?

So that begs the question- why is she telling you?

Either: She knows full well where its going, is distressed about it and deeply embarrassed and wants help from you without actually spelling out that your brother is financially abusing her in which case I would report it

Or: she is having some kind of cognitive decline and is confused about the money and is forgetting where its going in which case again, you need to report it as financial abuse

This scenario doesnt make sense as if she knows its going to your brother and its causing her financial harm and genuinely doesnt want you interfering then she wouldnt be constantly mentioning it to you- it would be shrouded in secrecy. I would see this as a cry for help on her part.

Show quote history

I’d say it’s option A, but when I ask her and press her she lies I’d have thought she’d break down but she doubles down and says to butt out but I imagine this is really common for those in abusive relationships

OP posts:
MonsieurSpade · 02/05/2024 09:40

I would ring your db and threaten to involve the police if he takes anymore.

poetryandwine · 02/05/2024 09:42

This is so sad, OP. I agree with PPs that you need to take advice and that Age UK is a good place to begin

Original poster
Unicornfairysoap · 02/05/2024 09:43

MonsieurSpade · 02/05/2024 09:40

I would ring your db and threaten to involve the police if he takes anymore.

He’s threatened me before, attacked me when I was 5mnths pregnant, plus I think he’d then turn onto my mum and probably would push her more to him and make her even more secretive. Plus he’s such a liar, talking to him is like falling into a rabbit hole

OP posts:
funnelfan · 02/05/2024 09:44

What a difficult situation.

Another area to consider is that if your mum needs care in the future, and her savings are below the £23.5k limit, the local authority will contribute to care costs. However, they will conduct a financial assessment. if they investigate and consider that your mum has deliberately run down her savings by giving them away to avoid paying for care then they won’t pay for her care either. There is no time limit for this deprivation of assets, it is separate from consideration of inheritance tax schemes that have a 7 year limit.

I’m sorry I have no constructive solutions for you, but at least by raising the issue now with the police and/or social care you can lay the groundwork to show that if she does run out of money in the future, it wasn’t given away with the intent of avoiding care fees.

newyorkhotel · 02/05/2024 09:44

I’d say it’s option A, but when I ask her and press her she lies I’d have thought she’d break down but she doubles down and says to butt out but I imagine this is really common for those in abusive relationships

Oh gosh thats such a difficult situation to be in- my sympathies.

The problem is- she cant have it both ways. She cant cry to you about having no money and then lie about it. Thats not fair on you. If it were me, I'd be seeking advice first from age concern as suggested and then I'd report it. If she was angry then so be it- she is putting you in an impossible situation where you are damned if you do, damned if you dont. However, I couldn't just sit by and allow this to happen. I'd be reporting it and let the cards fall where they may.

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