Partner wants a baby - am I not compromising?

[Daisyshine90]

My partner (39 this year) wants a baby but I’m still hesitant (34 this year). He brought up trying for a baby about a year in. I said I wasn’t ready as we weren’t even living together yet. He said some things:

“He’s worried for me that I’ll miss my chance” - surely that’s an emotion I should own?
“He’s worried I’ll never be ready” - I said I wanted children just not right then.
“We both met older - he never wanted to be an old dad” - he worked abroad until he was 35 developing his career. (I have a good career too but he is significantly on more than me.)
Some family might not be around next year” - despite no one being ill at the time he said that.

It dawned on me then that he’s desperate to start a family and it’s felt like a pressure ever since. Are these usual things to discuss?

He has offered his own compromises l:
Right at the start of the dating period he was adamant against marriage. It’s been a regular argument since but I started to accept that it wasn’t going to happen. He broke up with his previous partner because she wanted marriage and children and he didn’t/wasn’t ready at the time for kids. Nearly 2 years in, he said he has been thinking about it and now wants to marry me because he cares for me, knows how important it is to me and is willing to compromise. I asked if he could give me a timeline and he said 3 - 4 years but he wants children first. I responded suspiciously and it ended up in another argument. This was because it was on the back of an argument. Was I being unfair in responding that way?

We still don’t live together but I’ll be moving in soon. He has never seen this as a problem though and thinks it’ll work if I get pregnant now and eventually move in. This just seems absurd to me. Now one of his family members is ill with cancer and I’m worried that’s going to be another pressure.

The pressure is hitting hard. I feel so overwhelmed by it that I can’t even think straight about how I feel because I’m thinking about how he feels. I’ve always wanted a family but the thought of being pregnant makes me incredibly anxious. I wanted it to be a decision together, and the pressure just makes me feel as though it’s not my decision.

This is all combined with me moving into a house he is building. Originally he didn’t want me to have any input (just bills) but then after a while we agreed it’d work emotionally if I put some investment in. But now l, after reading up on it, I don’t feel it’s a good idea (not being married) but he’s certain he wants me to put 50% in. The plan is also for his mother to move in the small build next to it (inevitably she will be helping with ‘childcare’). This was his plan really early on so it has never been something we’ve discussed together. I get on with his mum very well but I just feel decisions are out of my control and I’m just fitting into his jigsaw.

I’ve been diagnosed recently with PTSD due tone sexual trauma and have experienced an abusive relationship in the past. I know these impact how I approach relationships and trusting partners. I love him and we have some wonderful times together. Generally we get on really well. It’s just the pressure of the next big steps.

I don’t have many friends who have families yet, so I am surrounded by single friends. I haven’t really been in a position of a serious relationship/living with someone because of my past. This is all new to me and I feel very naive. Does anyone have any advice? Am I being unreasonable?

Just get the fuck out of there OP. Don't pass go don't collect £200 just break up with him immediately.

The whole thing is a nightmare. You would be putting your whole future at risk of you go ahead with his insane plan

And it is insane, you are not unreasonable and you should be listening to your gut.

This guy is a very bad person.

Sorry OP but all of your post made me feel very anxious an rather trapped, not helped by the further information that he wants you to move into a house he is building and with his mother right next door.

I think that your instincts are telling you that this is not right - I don't have children but I am absolutely certain that they should be an active, positive choice between two people who respect and care for one another and who share similar ideas on children/family/parenting/money. That is obviously the ideal and many people have children they didn't plan for and still love them dearly, but any parent will tell you that babies test even the strongest relationships.

He sounds very much as if he is steamrolling you into something that he wants. Also, leaving aside the potentional future "compromise" of marrying you when you've had kids, please just consider the situation he is proposing for you right now.

You are the lower earner. He wants you to move into a property that is most definitely his. As an unmarried partner, you will have no automatic right of ownership or habitation, he could kick you out at any minute or lord it over you, and you will have given up your own home.

Can you imagine a conversation with him about maternity leave or shared family finances? Have you had one already? These threads have any number of women who moved in with a partner, had children, never married, and found themselves up shit creek without a paddle when the relationship broke down or if that partner died. There are also any number of women who post about using up all of their maternity pay/salary/UC and being financially hard up, while their partner has a flash car or an expensive hobby, who berates them for their "financial illiteracy".

I am not saying marriage is the ideal, but it is the quickest route to legal protection for you, your home, any financial assets, pensions, and any future children. Especially if you take a career/earnings hit while having/raising those children.

If you were my freind saying "do you think I should move in? He says we'll get married after kids", I would be seriously pleading with you not to.

Please put zero money into his house building project without some form of equity share. Don’t have kids before he commits to marriage if that’s what YOU want.

Better still just f*ck him off. He sounds like a bit of a dick.

There might be some benefits to you @Daisyshine90 but ALL the risks are with you.
Finance, Investment in House, Career disruption, roof over your head.

No Marriage...NO BABY.

He clearly doesn't want to marry you because he will lose his assets.
Do not have a baby before marriage.

You are legally completely unprotected.

I can't comment on your relationship - but having been through IVF at 35 and watched the struggles of those around me in their mid-to-late 30s finding it difficult to get pregnant... at 34 you have to be realistic about your fertility.

If you want kids but don't mind if they come as step kids, adopted etc - or you would accept that having biological kids might not happen for you - then no pressure from your fertility clock.

But if you want your own biological children you need to think about that.

Ha no thanks. I’d be throwing this slug back into the sea.

Being charitable to him, you are simply not wanting the same out of this relationship. You probably need treatment for your PTSD and anxiety before you plan life-changing decisions. You want marriage, a stake in your joint home and then start a family (and a discussion about whether his mother lives next door) - in that order. There are very sound reasons for doing things this way.

This with bells on.

@Daisyshine90 You haven't even lived with him yet.... absolutely don't put a penny piece into his house build - you have zero legal protection!

You may get on with his mother now, but could you live next to her 24/7? That's a whole different ball game to seeing her maybe once every couple of weeks.

Sounds very sketchy and fraught with potential issues.

Thanks everyone. I hope it helps if I clarify some things as I wasn’t sure if I was clear.

I definitely want to have children - but the timing right now seems wrong with the other things grinding away at my consciousness (house/marriage etc). I’m so anxious about making the wrong decision. I’m naive and overly distrusting because of my background.

It terms of investing the house - can’t I be put on the deeds? I thought that means me owning part of it/having equity? Is that still a terrible decision? I rent at the moment but was considering buying my own house. His response to that is that he wants us to be a team.

He isn’t abusive to me like my previous partner. He is kind to our neighbours, helpful in terms of cooking/asking about my day/helping out with general things - he isn’t very emotionally expressive but he is genuinely a nice and calm person. His parents went through a very messy divorce when he was young and I wonder if this is what is making him cautious. His dad is now with a long term partner unmarried and his mum was with her partner for 17 years unmarried. In contrast, I’ve been brought up by two parents married happily for 35 years.

I am currently in therapy working through everything. I have a decent career and was recently promoted. I’ve made it clear I’d go back to work - but is that not a reality for most women? I do have family I am very close to and of course they are concerned I’m so worried. My brother has had a baby with his partner (unmarried but engaged) and one of my friends who has had a child is also unmarried (but engaged and the higher earner). My other friend is married with a child. Three of my close friends don’t want children.

They are the experiences I can relate to - I just can’t tell objective reality from excuses.

I’m naive and overly distrusting because of my background

I don't think so. You are distrusting of him because you have normal feelings towards someone who is not trustworthy. You will regret it if you have babies with this man especially if you aren't married to him.

It terms of investing the house - can’t I be put on the deeds? I thought that means me owning part of it/having equity? Is that still a terrible decision?

You’ve had 130+ responses of ‘run for the hills’. Yes, it’s a terrible decision to invest in a house with this man. But if you’re set on doing it then you need to consult a solicitor, not mumsnet.

If you invest you should go on the deeds and it be clear what your part of it is.

If you have a child with him, marriage is likely a good idea if there is any ensuing financial imbalance. You don’t really know what he’s like to live with yet, I think, and this is a big risk to take when having a child with someone. People don’t have to get married of course, but children can often make the woman more financially vulnerable so it’s often a v good idea.

If you definitely want children at some point you probably should think pretty carefully about when. People obv have children in mid-late 30s but it can be harder. And think about what you actually want from this relationship. What happens when you talk about finances with him? Does he listen? Does he seem likely to be an equal parent and take as many days off for child sickness as you would?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles

A PP once copied and pasted the profiles of abusive men from the Lundy Bancroft book, Why Does He Do That?

You have said that you were in an abusive relationship - none of us know what your previous partner was like, but I strongly doubt that he is the "only" type of abuser. Emotional manipulation and coercive control do not require the abuser to be constantly outwardly horrible or aggressive, they don't have to swear at you or threaten violence. Abuse can be verbal or financial - the aim is to chip away at the victim until they are too tired or worn down or too busy managing their partner's reaction to actually see the wood for the trees and leave. And when they do reach this point they may already be so deep into Fear Obligation and Guilt that they really struggle to see that their partner is manipulative and to trust their own judgement.

Maybe we're only hearing the bad side of this situation, but the bad side of pushing you to have a child with no consideration for your life/health/finances/security is really bad.

OP, you are stressed and anxious and unsure of yourself because your gut is screaming at you that this is not the right situation for you.

You want to be married. You want to have children. I'd imagine you want to be loved and supported by your partner in a shared home that you both feel equally secure in. This specific man is not the man to do this with.

*Edited for horrendous spelling.

Most people are saying this is off because it’s super off. If he wants to actually marry you he can do it now, he’s keeping his options open and ensuring you have no financial recourse in case your relationship breaks down.

He wants you to be a team if you are giving him money for the house but not so much that he would marry you before you would have children. Either it’s because if you had fertility problems he would ditch you or he wants to make sure you leave with nothing.

There's no shame in it but you don't want the same things at the same time so I'd say end the relationship otherwise you're both in the realms of being unfair to each other.

However you're 33. Even if you can and would get pregnant at 40 do you want to be still doing school runs and homework when you're 50? Etc.

Right at the start of the dating period he was adamant against marriage. It’s been a regular argument since but I started to accept that it wasn’t going to happen. He broke up with his previous partner because she wanted marriage and children and he didn’t/wasn’t ready at the time for kids. Nearly 2 years in, he said he has been thinking about it and now wants to marry me because he cares for me, knows how important it is to me and is willing to compromise. I asked if he could give me a timeline and he said 3 - 4 years but he wants children first.

Okay, this is the thing bothering me about the whole thing, in an ideal world you would normally:

• Date first, find out if you're compatible and what your future plans are

• Move in together, to make sure you can cohabit together and you'd both be happy planning a future around that.

• children/marriage, can really be done in any order, can be either or, or none if you're both in agreement, IMO moving in together and making sure you are compatible is the biggest commitment you can make, and what happens after that should happen naturally without argument because you both want it.

If you two are fighting so badly before you've even got to the moving in stage then you just aren't compatible. I can see from your update why he has trust issues and is hesitant with marriage, especially if he's got money behind him, but it is completely unreasonable to pressure you into having children when he has given you zero commitment himself.

Why don't you say you'll live together and see how it goes? But I wouldn't even consider putting money into a house, or TTC with him unless you know you can live with him first.

stick to your guns and say you wont consider bearing a child for him until he gives you the security of marriage

So you have to produce children to get the ring - how many before you qualify for marriage? It's not easy to leave with a couple of small children so he probably wouldn't actually marry you in reality. He'd say things like it's just a bit of paper. He also has decided you should put pony up half the costs of buying the house he has chosen - hopefully he at least is offering shared ownership of some sort. And you would absolutely need your own legal advice. The messiness of you breaking up and trying to get your half share out is another matter. As for the mum next door, does she know she's up for the childcare? Is it more likely you'll end up looking after her?

I'd buy my own house and get as far away from this man as possible. It is all about what he wants. Yes, if had to have children again, I'd have had them a bit earlier than 34 and 37 and some of my friends did struggle in their late thirties. But this relentless bullying and wanting to marry you only after you have had children with him is just not on. The comment about not buying your own house and wanting to be a team is ludicrous given that he wants everything his own way.

He might be nice to the neighbours but he is being a selfish pig to you.

This. No way in hell I would dream of investing in a shared property with someone I have never even lived with before. Especially when he has orchestrated it all entirely to his preferences and convenience and already has his mother moving next door!! As other posters have said, there are so many red flags here…..

I do think it's a valid point that at 33 you're losing time to have a successful pregnancy, but It's much better to bring a child into this world because both parents love and respect each other and want children together, not just because one is guilted/forced into it and you're not even sure if the relationship is going to last, as one is completely non committal, you're signing up to a lifetime of being tied to that person remember.

Your biological clock ticking is not really a good enough reason to go ahead with this IMO.

exactly this.

I’ll add that ‘99 burning red flags’ fits the original rhythm - and this situation marginally better…

If he’s all in, and wants to raise children with you, I’d expect that he’d be actively trying to build your ‘United states’ - meaning marriage / putting you on property deeds and (very crucially) listening to what you want and working with you to help you feel save and loved.

he sounds like a selfish prat.

At 34 you have plenty of time to find a nice father for your children.

He doesn't want to marry you but he does want to babytrap you and manipulate you into taking care of his mother.

Buy your own house. That way he can't kick you out of your own home or swan off with 50% when you've had enough.

Do not move in with him or have a baby with him. It's a looming disaster. There are lots of lovely men out there who'd love to be your husband. Keep up with the counselling and see him for what he is. He's only nice to you because he hasn't got what he wants from you. I.e. you in a cleft stick and at his beck and call.

I'm sorry to read you have PTSD and why. Please look into EMDR therapy to help with this. Please don't dismiss how you feel because of your partners actions and demands by assuming it is because of your life experiences.

Do you want to live next door to his mother? Do you want to be obliged to use her for childcare?

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

How desperate does he think you are? To dangle a carrot of marriage before you, if you breed for him first. He's disgusting.