To think my friend is truly awful for doing this?

[Jamye]

My friend has recently been very keen to book a mini break with me. I’ve been looking forward to it and she’s sent lots of links to luxury hotels etc. It got to the point where I had to say could we go somewhere cheaper, she said that was fine and then proceeded to say she only had ‘extra income’ because she was getting her ex to pay for all her DD’s childcare by firstly giving him inflated cost of them, not telling him she’s using tax free childcare and also taking holiday allowance one day a week so has a day with her daughter that basically her ex is paying her for as he thinks he’s funding nursery!

I was really shocked by this and think it’s very wrong. His maintenance was already high in the first place and then she asked for more because nursery is more, when it’s actually not. So she has all funded nursery and some left over for dd and for her to spend as she wants. I haven’t told my DH as he is still a colleague of my friend’s ex. They had an acrimonious split and my friend feels she is ‘owed’ this (he left her and only started seeing their dd when she was six months). I do totally get my friend has been through a lot and I have huge sympathy, but this is basically stealing money?! He is not a wealthy man and she earns well herself. AIBU to be surprised/disgusted by this?! I genuinely don’t feel I can sustain the friendship as it is so lacking in basic honesty!

Yep, this. Every single point is spot on.

Blimey. Here you are gleefully day dreaming of about a baby girl growing up deceitful and manipulative, with a mother who hates her, and you've the nerve to call other posters over invested? Because quite honestly if you're resorting to writing off an innocent baby's future as part of your fantasy revenge scenario, you must be quite deeply triggered by this.

If you don’t feel comfortable in her company any more and cannot reconcile her behaviour then you should distance yourself from her.
I think in your situation I’d be weighing up the pros and cons of your friendship. If I enjoyed her company and thought she was a good friend, then I’d be inclined to overlook her behaviour on this matter as she has obviously been hurt by this man and his behaviour to her and her child.

I had a friend who was very much like your friend OP. We had a similar sense of humour and interests but as the years of gone on I have realised that I cannot reconcile myself to her self-serving and arrogant behaviour or her malicious lies about people so I have phased her out. She doesn’t have children though so none of the reasons were child related. I feel none the worse for it as I have met some lovely people whose morals and personality traits align with mine. It’s not about being a saint in life but having a basic level of respect and common decency. I think in life even if people treat you poorly it’s no excuse not to put your best self forward just because the other person isn’t. I’m not saying by any standards to accept people treating you badly but you can still deal with it in the correct manner without letting yourself down in the process. This man has clearly made mistakes but is obviously trying his best to rectify them. If you can’t not let your bitterness show for the sake and best interests of your child then I have absolutely no respect for you.

I couldn't cope with having such a dishonest friend and would disance myself.
Not excusing what he's done, but he's not my friend so not my business, she is.
I've known a few friends like this who'll casually screw people over, and nobody is safe when they decide to turn on you eventually.

Neither does my husband, doesn’t mean I can mug him off.

I think what’s frustrating OP is the dishonesty and the gloating.

Maintenance rarely covers the full cost of raising a child. He doesn’t even have the child for over nights. I would not massively object to what your friend is doing here.

His own stupid fault. If he was more involved he’d know what’s going on wouldn’t he.

He’s paying for his freedom.

If someone claimed expenses from their employer they weren’t due, that would be fraud. They might say their employer treated them badly or they weren’t paid for working over their hours but that wouldn’t change the fact it’s fraud.

The dynamic’s obviously different as he’s her ex-partner and the father of her child but in my eyes it’s still fraud. I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who committed fraud to have more nice things and/or punish someone else because I wouldn’t trust them.

This will create serious animosity if he finds out too and their child will be the one who feels the impact of that the most. Poor thing - their dad’s a dick and their mum’s a thief who prioritises her bank balance over them.

It’s clearly an arrangement that suits them both. It would be very easy for him to check how much nursery costs. He probably feels guilty and happy to chuck a bit of extra money at the situation so he doesn’t have to deal with any part of parenting.

Like another poster said - he’s paying for his freedom.

We don’t know why he doesn’t have the child overnight but his maintenance will reflect that and as the OP says his maintenance is high unless the OP would like to correct me it sounds as though he probably pays over the odds for maintenance or at least that’s how it reads to me. Even people who earn well over the minimum wage per week get to pay pitiful sums IME. It’s still no excuse to misrepresent your position and brag about it. It’s a disgraceful moral role-model to be to your child, distasteful at the very least. She should be spending his child maintenance on their child not weekends away with her friends.

I think men like this deserve far worse.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable to feel uncomfortable about it, but I also think it’s not so black and white and you are being quite judgemental without knowing the full history of their relationship (even if you think you do).

This is almost certainly not about the money but about your friend trying to mitigate against other perceived losses.

I would focus on trying to understand the behaviour and support your friend in moving to a place where the lying doesn’t feel necessary anymore.

Doesn’t the child deserve better though because yourself and the OPs friend seem to be missing the same point. The crux of the issue isn’t really about the man at all or getting one over on him it’s about the child having the best quality of life which neither are giving.

A knob gets screwed over, cry me a river.

Normally it's these men screwing their children over and no one seems that upset by it.

Yes, it's dishonest and yes, I wouldn't do it myself. But like posters have said, she's probably trying to get some payback and is exploiting his lack of interest in his child to do this. So it's "targeted" dishonesty at someone she thinks owes her. As her friend, I'd think she's a bit outrageous but leave her to it.

How is the mother getting more maintenance than the pittance they normally get not good for the child’s quality of life? How is her spending a
day a week (when the other parent is nowhere to be seen) with the child not giving the child a good quality of life?

I would argue the father sticking around might have given the child a good quality of life (though that’s debatable if he’s an arse). Now the Mum is doing what she can as a single parent - and if that means a bit of extra cash then I can’t see how that negatively affects the child?

I'm not going to ask why your husband doesn't want to do those things but clearly OP is the girlfriend of a man who thinks he is being mugged off by his ex, despite the fact he has had fuck all involvement with his child.

@Jamye Maybe in your mind but maybe in her mind his behaviour his relavant to the dishonesty. She's your friend, instead of putting her here for all to judge why don't you talk to her instead and make her aware of the issues of being dishonest... maybe have an honest convo with her seen as you are all about honesty. I realise this is a place to vent but you are already confident in what you feel about it all and if the exact details are true you've ousted her over something that doesn't even concern you and youre not looking for advice you're just looking to bad mouth her.

Your moral codes don’t align. I’ve known someone a long time whose morals are growing further and further apart from mine. Again it’s about money and duping a man. Karma will sort her out

Why are you more shocked about her actions rather than this shameful man who has shirked his responsibilities towards his child and his child’s mother? It’s a sad situation all round and while I can’t admire her dishonesty nor her faffing about booking fancy mini breaks with pals when her life is in a shambles, it seems insignificant compared to this appalling man.

I think the point here is that she’s claiming free childcare, funded by the taxpayer, when those costs are already covered by her ex. On every MN benefit thread, those who are perceived as cheats are considered a scourge on society. How is this any different ? It’s fraud.

Yes, on MN women are almost never in the wrong! I would be tempted to tell him what she was doing, as I would a woman who was being cheated by an ex.

It isn't fraud, because she can claim it irrelevant of what he is paying. They do not take maintenance into account for means testing benefits.

You are joking aren't you?

Why don't you sit down with a pen and paper and work out how many hours your friend dedicates to raising her child.
Include the evenings and nights too of course.
Give her an hourly rate for this (living wage)
Then include the additional housing costs/bills.
Then include all the extra food/clothing/meds/toys/activities/petrol etc

Then divide by 2 (two parents)

Then include the year/months of back-pay & interest.

Then tell me she's quids in, cos I bet she fucking isn't.

The way she's expressing it might seem gauche, but if you took the time to do the maths rather than running your friend down online you'd be a better person for it.

Your friend needs to find better friends.

Why are you more shocked about her actions rather than this shameful man who has shirked his responsibilities towards his child and his child’s mother?

It doesn't say anywhere that she's more shocked.
However. her friend is her friend, and she will spend time with her. The child's father is nothing to do with OP, she probably won't ever see him.