I really don’t think I ABU but everyone thinks otherwise - AIBU?

[Treaclescourer]

I am quite used to always being seen as ‘at fault’ in my family but I am genuinely starting to think maybe I am being unreasonable here so wanted to get external opinions. It’s long so I apologize but I’d really appreciate any input.

backstory -
my brother has ASD (an Asperger’s diagnosis when that was still a thing) and although is very ‘high functioning’ is prone to being selfish, devoid of any empathy and at times violent.

My entire childhood revolved around him, and making sure he wasn’t overwhelmed due to the violent outbursts that would occur.

As he has gotten older the violence has started to become less frequent, but since being with my DH (11 years) he has witnessed 2-3 violent incidents from my brother towards me which has made DH not like my brother at all. He has ASD himself and because he isn’t violent doesn’t think my brother’s diagnosis is an excuse for that behavior. So I try to keep them separate, DH is polite and civil when around my brother but doesn’t enjoy spending time with him (although he does a very good job of masking it, as my brother is under the impression that he and DH are cool)

My brother lives 3 hours drive away from me.

(this is relevant) - additionally 8 years ago my father moved abroad for work and comes back to the UK every 2 years.

Now onto the issue at hand.

In November last year I was told my father was going to come back to the UK to visit for 3 weeks. This would be the first trip back since I had my DS. So it would be his first chance to meet his grandson. He was due to spend 2 weeks with my brother and one week with me.

DHs birthday is also in November and we had planned a city break for a long weekend. The city was about 40 mins away from where my brother lives. So I spoke to DH and said since we had limited time with my father I was thinking about making a detour to have maybe a nice lunch with my brother and dad on the way to the city break. To maximize the time as a family. He said of course as he also misses my dad (they have a great relationship) and wanted DS to get as much time with him as possible. I also hadn’t seen my brother for a few months at this point (as he won’t get a bus or coach to come and see us due to anxiety, and I had a newborn so wasn’t in the mood for 6 hour round trips)

Spoke to my brother, he was excited to see us all, great.

Unfortunately dad had to pull out of the trip due to medical issues a month before coming back. As that would just then leave the afternoon as just me, my brother, DH and DS I cancelled the detour to see my brother on the way to DHs birthday trip. As the only reason we were doing it was to maximize time with my father and tbh I felt bad expecting DH to spend a day around a man he dislikes on his birthday trip.

I understand why my brother is upset with this, but now I am public enemy number 1 in my family for being ‘so cruel’ to him and ‘making him feel like an afterthought’ - quite honestly he was an afterthought, he hasn’t bothered to come and visit us, he has never made the effort to come to me, and is now getting annoyed I wouldn’t do a 40 min detour to see him, I’m apparently a narcissist and almost as awful as Hitler (his words)

I’m not sure if since having DS a lot of trauma from my childhood and having to bend to my brothers will so much is coming up and making me a bit of an asshole, but honestly speaking - in this situation was I being unreasonable? Should I apologize?

The op is talking about her experiences with her brother. Stop telling her she is wrong. Also, yes mental health problems such as depression and anxiety are common in Asperger’s, they don’t live normal
lives. You know what would help? Taking his medication. He doesn’t do that. Mumsnet is pretty clear that you can’t make depressed people want to be better and you also can’t set yourself on fire to keep them warm. That goes double when they won’t even put a coat on. He can book and take himself on a 4 week trip to Japan, he can take his tablets. I’d hope if you thought medication would help your son’s mental state he would take them.

Yes, he used to. I used to baracade myself and my daughter in other rooms to protect her from him. I completely understand where the OP is coming from. I have not once condoned her brothers behaviour..however as I have said multiple times I think her parents should have done more to protect her.

This is what happens when you are the one used to being deprioritised in a family. The moment you have any sort of preference or need of your own it is seen as an affront to the status quo and you are the one in the wrong.

Eventually, you have to just say "fuck 'em" and look out for yourself. In their eyes, you will always be the one who is obligated to sacrifice your needs for his. If that weren't the case your family wouldn't have allowed you to be abused by him for so long. If they think his abuse and bullying of you is a fair thing for you to put up with due to his ASD needs then why wouldn't they expect you to travel to see him despite it being annoying for you?

I'm sad that you don't have anyone in your family to back you up in real life.

I am a parent of a DS with ASD and when he was young, he was violent, mainly against property. Fortunately, after considerable therapy (thank you Australian government!) it has stopped. He still does lots of hand flapping and echolalia (drives we nuts) but he functions well, making it to senior year of school, has part time work after school and is sociable.

I just wanted to say I understand your painful memories as a sibling living with it. It’s different for me as a parent, as I understood why it was happening and I was bigger, physically. If it had continued in adulthood, I probably would have found DS somewhere else to live. My DS’s older sister also found it difficult and even though it stopped a while ago she still remembers.

I think you are doing pretty well as it is to support wider family events with your brother present, considering he is still sometimes violent. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

Autism doesn't make you vile. Even if it did, no one deserves bad behaviour like DB’s.

Keep your distance - be nice from a safe space.

I have been in your shoes, hence mentioning my Brother. I just think maybe you need to sit down with your parents and talk to them about how they didn't protect you. Maybe that would improve your relationship with your Brother.

Facts: Bro has a ASD diagnosis; Bro has been violent to OP on numerous occasions; Family of Origin has enabled a dysfunctional dynamic run by fear and guilt for decades.

Conclusion: OP is well within her rights to protect the emotional and physical safety of herself and her own little family irrespective of Bro's diagnosis.

Bro of course needs to engage in therapy (but probably doesn't think he needs it and therefore won't) as do his parents. The dysfunctional dynamic will continue whilst everyone keeps doing the same thing they've done for decades. Plus, every dysfunctional family needs a scapegoat and it's looks like it's the OP.

Stay safe OP, and think about getting some therapy for yourself to navigate how cope with this very challenging situation. You are not to blame, you are not responsible for your Bro when your parents pass on, and you do not have to have contact with people who won't acknowledge they have an issue, blame others and won't get help, and around whom you are not safe.

Your brother is not your priority anymore. You have your own family. You can't have your child spending time around someone who is "at times violent".

Yanbu.

I understand why your brother is disappointed and that he feels rejected by the lunch being cancelled. Wouldn't you feel that way if a family member was coming to visit but decided you weren't worth it on your own?

Having said that though, I wouldn't have a relationship with someone who was violent to me. Especially after having a child of my own. What if he one day decides to push your child down the stairs? Given the genetics of the situation, there's a chance your child will be autistic too, so that could impact the relationship between him and your brother (either for positive or negative).

Your family are upset with you because they are looking to you to make their lives easier. Brother's needs will always come first. They are no doubt looking for you to take over as caregiver if they can't. What arrangements have they made for his future?

This situation might be a good opportunity for you to decide what kind of relationship you want with your brother going forward. It may also be a good chance for you to have a discussion with your parents about planning for your brother's future when they can no longer be his carers. In that discussion, remember that your needs, and that of your child, matter to.

So many people tolerate nasty, abusive, narcissistic behaviour from mum/dad/siblings/relatives because they "are family". Fuck That! Just because someone is "family" doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with them or be a part of each others lives. You only have one life - spend it with the people who matter, the people you choose. I don't have much of a relationship with ANY of my extended family these days. First of all, I moved a long way away, then I moved to an entirely different continent, so gradually lost touch etc. I don't know them anymore! I don't make a big point of trying to get together with these people just because they "are family". We are blood relatives, but essentially strangers!

Nah, fuck him, and the people making you out to be a villain. ASD isn't an excuse for being an arsehole, your husband has it right. I wouldn't waste my time seeing a man who's violent, whatever the cause. Haven't seen my brother in forty years.

I wouldn’t give a monkeys if he’s upset. He’s a violent thug using a diagnosis as an excuse. Having asd doesn’t make you violent, I wouldn’t be seeing him at all. And I would also tell him you wanted to see your dad and not him.

The more I read about this man the more I think NC is the way to be. You never had a relationship to repair, he is, as PP said, a violent thug who uses his diagnosis as an all-purpose reason to get his way and brutalises you when you don't do exactly as he requires. Cut him out of your life, he's not worth having anything to do with. You've already experienced how much better it is when he's NC - make it permanent. Your parents need to get over themselves and stop expecting you to pander to the golden son.

No you are not being unreasonable in the slightest. You have a new baby, you need to prioritise your own family and your wellbeing and quite frankly why not your happiness as well?

Abusive family members wreak havoc, he's been violent, he's now being emotionally abusive and manipulative, and you're expected to toe the party line because that's what you've always done.

Except you've noticed that actually it's quite peaceful without him. And your DH, who hasn't been trained from childhood to obey this tyrant, isn't having it either.

Your brother sounds like a bully who is used to getting his own way. If it makes it easier, know that by not engaging and not apologising you are actually no longer enabling his behaviour, and doing him a favour, which he may or may not recognise as such.

He needs to reflect and work on himself. That's not your problem. You're not a punching bag.

Unfortunately, your family is extremely toxic and dysfunctional.

Violent brother seems to be the olden child and you are the scapegoat.

I also agree that therapy will be very very helpful to you.

Also his mental health isn't your problem.

Thank you for saying this @RamblingAroundTheInternet. Some of the OP's dismissive comments about autism on this thread are absolutely awful.

It's a typical case of someone who's lived with an autistic person deciding they actually know what it's like to be autistic, and deciding that half the problems are just made up or exaggerated. For context, I'm an autistic woman.

I don't think anyone is defending the brother or his violence.

But the OP is one minute describing a close relationship with the brother, and then the next minute is saying she wasn't interested in his company and will go NC. None of it makes any sense.

I think given the history of violence, it would be understandable for OP to not want any contact. But you can't pick someone up and put them down at a whim. That would be difficult to understand for anyone, let alone someone who's autistic. OP seems to blow hot and cold with her bother - one minute talking about them having a close relationship and enjoying his company, and then the next minute dismissing his very real difficulties, and suggesting that she's going to go NC. It's extremely hard to follow so no wonder the brother is confused!

If OP doesn't like her brother, then don't encroach on his time with their dad, and don't invite him to the meal. Even if you're not the main reason to be invited to the meal, an invitation suggests that your company is also desirable.

Cancelling the meal because the dad is no longer going to be there was a shitty thing to do, based on the previous arrangements. If OP feels as if she wants to go NC due to the violence, that's understandable. But it needs to be consistent and not dropping the brother willy-nilly. She shouldn't have invited him at all if she felt there was no value in his company.

Just because the brother has exhibited some truly unacceptable behaviour in the past doesn't excuse the OP from being shitty too.

I don't think anyone comes out of this looking great - the OP, the brother, or her family.

OP needs to decide what she wants out of her relationship with her brother, and then be clear about this going forward. It's not fair to him to be picked up and discarded, and it's not fair to OP to be his punching bag, even if it's only verbal these days.

Goes without saying that some therapy would really help here.

My brother was sometimes violent towards me due to mental illness. We all love him but no one expects me to see him. My parents don’t want me to be around him in case he hurts me. They also don’t want there to be any risk of him harming my children. I haven’t seen him for 20yrs. Your brother’s ASD and whether he can help it is not relevant. He is violent towards you and therefore he should not be around you. You are definitely not being unreasonable.

Remember ladies, #bekind to the men who push you down the stairs.

And be grateful that you're not the violent one @mrsdineen2! Lucky you being assaulted and not the abuser, think about THEM!!
@SpidersAreShitheads I think op and her dh come out of this very well. She should be v proud he's given her the confidence to detach from the FOG and shit show of a violent childhood, and am appalled by posters who are running the guilt trip on her of 'poor him! Poor him!'

We’ll get there one day. The kid that wanted to play in the pool is almost 30.

It was the worst day for being trapped with my easygoing DS2 between ASD DS2 (pool boy)and ASD DH (Crich fan). 🤣

We can't have women failing to minister to the needs and wants of violent men, now can we? They might get the idea they're people with rights and needs, and that will never do. It's so unfaaaaaiiir of women to refuse to say "how high?" when men say "jump".

If you ever want to, @Treaclescourer ,
you could point out to DB that his mum has prioritised him out of love and concern for him. She has chosen to put him before everyone else because she’s his mum.

You are now doing the same for your son.

He may need the underlying relationship motive pointed out.

Your poor mum.

Like many others here I think you should disengage from this violent man. Your safety is paramount. Think of the impact on your child and your husband if your brother seriously damaged your health.
I don’t think you should engage in any further argument or discussion about this with your brother and parents. Just be unavailable, and grey rock any demands. ‘No, I can’t go that day I have an appointment’ etc. There is a lot of advice in the Stately Homes thread about dealing with toxic families, which sadly is what you have had. Go low contact, or no contact.
You are not a punchbag.

She didn't arrange to see him, she arranged to see her dad and he would be there. Where there is abuse from a sibling and the parents have enabled it and hidden behind brothers ASD there will be so many complexities for this OP. Putting her own needs first will feel incredibly selfish to her I imagine because that's what she has been taught she is if she disregard's brother.