I really don’t think I ABU but everyone thinks otherwise - AIBU?

[Treaclescourer]

I am quite used to always being seen as ‘at fault’ in my family but I am genuinely starting to think maybe I am being unreasonable here so wanted to get external opinions. It’s long so I apologize but I’d really appreciate any input.

backstory -
my brother has ASD (an Asperger’s diagnosis when that was still a thing) and although is very ‘high functioning’ is prone to being selfish, devoid of any empathy and at times violent.

My entire childhood revolved around him, and making sure he wasn’t overwhelmed due to the violent outbursts that would occur.

As he has gotten older the violence has started to become less frequent, but since being with my DH (11 years) he has witnessed 2-3 violent incidents from my brother towards me which has made DH not like my brother at all. He has ASD himself and because he isn’t violent doesn’t think my brother’s diagnosis is an excuse for that behavior. So I try to keep them separate, DH is polite and civil when around my brother but doesn’t enjoy spending time with him (although he does a very good job of masking it, as my brother is under the impression that he and DH are cool)

My brother lives 3 hours drive away from me.

(this is relevant) - additionally 8 years ago my father moved abroad for work and comes back to the UK every 2 years.

Now onto the issue at hand.

In November last year I was told my father was going to come back to the UK to visit for 3 weeks. This would be the first trip back since I had my DS. So it would be his first chance to meet his grandson. He was due to spend 2 weeks with my brother and one week with me.

DHs birthday is also in November and we had planned a city break for a long weekend. The city was about 40 mins away from where my brother lives. So I spoke to DH and said since we had limited time with my father I was thinking about making a detour to have maybe a nice lunch with my brother and dad on the way to the city break. To maximize the time as a family. He said of course as he also misses my dad (they have a great relationship) and wanted DS to get as much time with him as possible. I also hadn’t seen my brother for a few months at this point (as he won’t get a bus or coach to come and see us due to anxiety, and I had a newborn so wasn’t in the mood for 6 hour round trips)

Spoke to my brother, he was excited to see us all, great.

Unfortunately dad had to pull out of the trip due to medical issues a month before coming back. As that would just then leave the afternoon as just me, my brother, DH and DS I cancelled the detour to see my brother on the way to DHs birthday trip. As the only reason we were doing it was to maximize time with my father and tbh I felt bad expecting DH to spend a day around a man he dislikes on his birthday trip.

I understand why my brother is upset with this, but now I am public enemy number 1 in my family for being ‘so cruel’ to him and ‘making him feel like an afterthought’ - quite honestly he was an afterthought, he hasn’t bothered to come and visit us, he has never made the effort to come to me, and is now getting annoyed I wouldn’t do a 40 min detour to see him, I’m apparently a narcissist and almost as awful as Hitler (his words)

I’m not sure if since having DS a lot of trauma from my childhood and having to bend to my brothers will so much is coming up and making me a bit of an asshole, but honestly speaking - in this situation was I being unreasonable? Should I apologize?

Also, sorry, one more thing that will sound dramatic but, given what you've said, really isn't.

What happens if one day your brother loses his temper and pushes you down the stairs yet again but this time you hit your head and die or suffer a brain injury, or hit something else at a funny angle and are permanently disabled?

He wouldn't mean for that to happen, I'm sure, but it is an entirely foreseeable possibility.

It robs not only you but also your child and husband of the life you should have had. And for what?

You wouldn't be unreasonable to want no contact with your brother at all the way he treats you.
You're not being unreasonable about this trip either but a significant part of why you're not being unreasonable is that it's DH birthday trip and he doesn't like your brother, which the rest of the family are unaware of so I can see why they think you are being unreasonable (also taking into account the attitude and excuses they make for your brother).

I think chastising a women to reconsider her perspective of the man who's repeatedly violent to her is a rather old fashioned way of thinking.

Your point came across as berating the OP for not being sympathetic enough for the struggles the dB has.

Your family is making you the fall-guy because it's easier than dealing with the consequences of putting it on your DB.

Your parents are terrified about what's going to happen to your brother when they can't look after him, and they're making him your responsibility.

Your brother is a lazy and manipulative bully, in addition to whatever conditions or disorders he has.

You lack the courage to stand by your feelings, which are to not indulge your DB any longer, because it might be 'mean'.

Sadly, this is often the sort of dysfunction that can reign in a family where a member has a MH problem.

And yes, I fully understand not everyone on the spectrum is the same, unfortunately DHs black and white thinking is at odds with that and can’t fathom why my brother is using a very mild diagnosis as an excuse for pushing his wife down the stairs.

whether the diagnosis is “severe” or “mild”:
pushing somebody down the stairs is potentially lethal. And there have been several outbursts of violence? No. His autism is NOT an excuse for that.

There are sadly consequences to actions which he has never really experienced for most of his life, my mum has recently tried to start getting him to understand that he can’t just moan people don’t want to spend time with him when he isn’t that enjoyable to spend time with. Which sounds awful, but at 30 it’s time I think for him to understand relationships are a two way street.

yes, and that is a failing of your parent. But these “consequences” - aka you not wanting to visit him / your DH not wanting to visit him - are not contextualised. Without having that context he may not understand why you’re choosing to act in this manner. Consequences without context unfortunately tend to feel random to most people. That’s not a learning experiences…

neither you nor your DH have an obligation to educate your DB or make him understand the consequences of his actions. Especially if this were to come at the expense of your mental (or physical) health.

But if you truly want him to understand that relationships are two way streets, you should consider explaining what has been happening. Which includes telling him that your DH doesn’t like him and why. (Your DH should however agree to this)

edit: you have the right to go NC. If that’s what you want, I’d recommend you stick to it. Don’t feel guilty for prioritising your own health and safety.

I think that's common tbh. When you have your own child and are consciously thinking about how you want to raise them it makes you question some things about your own childhood as you wouldn't do that to your child / allow that to happen around your child etc.

Should you apologise for cancelling lunch meeting? No.

Let me get this straight. Your wider family have made your life revolve around apologising for your brother's behaviour, either by seeking to avoid provoking him, by accepting the assaults and by living with the damage that has inevitably followed. Now they're asking you to apologise for hurting his feelings?

Er, no. I also call BS on the violence being something he can't take any responsibility for, because violence, though not impossible in autistic adults, is very unusual. Sorry OP. You're not their Black Sheep, you're just not their Golden Child. He can do no wrong, ever.

Your DH is right to reject his presence. Move on, have a super trip with your own family and put this silly pantomime in the rearview.

Time for your husband to grow up

Yes how childrish of her husband objecting to his wife being pushed down the stairs in front of him.

It wasn't meant to come across that way. I have a Brother who is not diagnosed but is clearly autistic. I have been in the OP's shoes, he was violent for years. It just angers me that the view of someone with high functioning ASD is seen as a mild diagnosis. My son is high functioning and its anything but a mild diagnosis. That said I wouldn't accept him being violent to myself or anyone else.

But he does have a mild diagnosis. Asperger’s was used when someone wasn’t ‘autistic’ enough and didn’t score highly enough when assessed.

So it is a mild diagnosis

Well one minute you want to see him and pop in as it’s been a while and see him with your dad. Brother is so excited. Then your dad isn’t coming so you’re not going to see him. So it doesn’t look great.

But the fact he is violent means I don’t think you should be seeing him at all.

Can you explain why it was ok to see him when your dad was there?

What does mild mean though? Isn’t it just a colour wheel with different aspects affected at different times?

Sorry, wrong thread!

You were perfectly reasonable to cancel the detour. I can see that it can make your brother upset, but that is his own problem and the whole family seem to have a weird filter on.

as there seems to be a misguided view that because someone is high functioning its somehow easier for them to handle their disability

As someone with a Aspergers diagnosis myself, I've started to see, to my great relief, more pushback against the insistance that there's no such thing as "mild" ASD. Of course there is. I've got a degree, a husband, a house and had a career for fifteen years. OPs brother arranged and undertook a trip round Japan for several weeks himself.
Some people with autism can never speak and require life long care. Of course there's a massive difference, it's just that autism and neurodiversity has got dragged into poxy identity politics and here we are.

I'm absolutely horrified that some people feel so tribal about being ND that they will defend quite extreme male violence and go on to berate the OP for daring to upset her abuser.

I'm sorry, I don't know why posts keep getting put here!

because it’s ok for me to see him normally?

I just didn’t have the time to visit after having DS, and seeing dad meant I could see my brother at the same time and get him off my back.

Before having DS I’d usually go down to visit every other month to see him and my mum.

Newsenmum mild would be what was previously diagnosed as Aspergers. Often academically gifted, or at least no learning disabilities. Many people with it able to achieve degrees, work, get married, have children, etc.

An autism diagnosis previously would have been given to children with severe impairments who would never have been able to do any of the above.

Well not really

There is an assessment, he didn’t score highly enough to get a full diagnosis at the time and was then given his Asperger’s diagnosis instead.

From memory the assessment was out of 60, scoring 30 and higher meant you were impacted, 30-40 was at the time given an Asperger’s diagnosis. Now people are given an ASD diagnosis scoring anywhere between 30-60 (I think it’s 60 as the top number, but you get the principle) but I’d imagine it’s not weird to consider people scoring 31/60 to be mildly impacted compared to someone scoring 59/60?

Honestly OP I really don’t think you understand your brother’s struggles quite well.

To say that his ASD is a red herring and apart from his depression and anxiety shows that very well. His anxiety, depression, isolation and no friends, inability to work, control his emotions and pick up on on social cues, lack of empathy etc are all likely to be a result of his ASD. You can have very high functioning autistic people who are super intelligent intellectually but still have the maturity of a 6 year old and not be able to tie their shoelaces. Your brother was probably able to manage his trip to Japan as it was something he was extremely motivated and obsessively focused to do. This is common with ASD and he can have the ability to do that but be unable to cope with making a GP appointment.

Obviously his violence is unacceptable (although I doubt it was a place of evil but from emotional dysregulation) but the way you are so dismissive and derogatory of your brothers disability is awful quite frankly. He didn’t ask to be the ASD sibling. He was unlucky. It could have been you!

Holy fuck, this is horrendous. I'm am so happy for you that your brother has gone NC with you- don't do anything to encourage him to get back into contact! Enjoy your freedom.

Of course it’s a mild diagnosis. Current autism discourse is ridiculous on this to the point of being offensive to people whose autism means they can’t talk or live independently.

It sounds as though your parents have both failed to safeguard you and failed to allow you to expect to live a fully independent life in adulthood independent of your brother. But you have a baby now and your baby has to be your priority.

My advice would be to take advantage of his not speaking to you to get some therapy. Psychodynamic or EMDR or both could be very helpful. No doubt this stuff will rear its head more and more as you learn to be a mum to your son and think about how you were patented. Only after some proper therapy would I resume contact. It can be hard not to bow to pressure especially when your mum is so poorly, but you can always make excuses about having your hands full. You don’t have to answer the phone and can text sporadically. Create some much needed space and distance and then reconsider.

And just to add: I can see how severe autism could explain some sibling violence, but this doesn’t sound like that. Disabled people can be arseholes too and in fact it’s discriminatory and patronising to deny that. I can see why he was sad about lunch, especially as autistic people can really go down the rabbit hole re grievances/holding grudges, but that doesn’t mean you are a bad person. You are carrying a lot - try and release some of it, even if temporarily. Wishing you all the best.