Booked holiday with DC - ex claiming abduction - AIBU.

[SimplyMother]

Hello all, a co-parent disagreement has arisen with me and ex. I’m worried as my partner is saying my actions may be seen as international abduction.

I told my ex that I’d like to take our child to a North American country for Christmas. I am born there but have been here since youth. It has been mentioned over the few years, and I reminded him if he’d be okay with it in Dec 23, for the next Christmas. As he was okay with it, I had booked the trip in January, and told him recently as it has now been paid off. The holiday is for 3 weeks.

He texted back, “shocked,” and claimed that he never knew that it would be for this year. I said he knew and he said he didn’t remember, and it was never seriously told to him in writing. He expressed discontent with the length, as it would take our then 4 year old out of school for 2 weeks - he claimed that he would’ve given the winter holiday if I asked but I don’t believe it. He also claimed that 3 weeks is too long for an announced country that is my “home country, that isn’t classed as very safe.” He’s saying that as it was booked behind his back, what I’m doing can be classed as international abduction.

He hasn’t threatened me, but says that he is not in agreement. And he says if I go, if there are repercussions with the school, I should deal with it alone. He says that when he asked last month to discuss Christmas 2024, I should’ve brought it up then - I didn’t as it wasn’t paid off yet.

Am I wrong - is it abduction? I plan to return, my life is here.

You always have something to say.

You should know, as the thread was full I couldn’t update, but it wasn’t actually 10 weeks. He miscalculated the time I spend away. It was actually 4-5 weeks. 1 week a month on Travel doesn’t sound that bad does it now.

4 months isn’t even boyfriend girlfriend territory for teenagers. It’s a fling. You’ve been salty ever since he met and got married to his wife.

I hope he gets a steps order to stop you for your petty ass behaviour

We were friends a year before that. It wasn’t a fling if I was telling him that I’d like to be married to him in that 4 month “fling.”

I have no idea of your back story but it sounds like you have a bit of form for tricky behaviour. Regardless of how you feel about your child's other parent you have a responsibility to make all decisions with as little conflict as possible. In a mature adult way.

Now onto your question. Yes from a legal standpoint, in the absence of a child arrangements order - it absolutely is child abduction if you remove a child from the uk without the EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT of everyone with PR. If consent is not forthcoming then you can make an application to the family court for a specific steps order to allow this trip.

This goes for EVERY parent male or female regardless of marital status. regardless of where you are travelling to. .. and before every single parent piles on with anecdotes about decades of travel all over the world and never been stopped... well that's just a combination of intelligence lead profiling, too few border force staff and a huge dose of luck. Is that something you want to chance on perhaps your one holiday a year with excited DC in tow ? Get a letter of an order !

At 4 months you was telling him you wanted to marry him…

He did not want to marry you, clearly. Most men would run a mile at a few month in telling them you want to marry them 😂

• or not of

Wow. No wonder you didn’t tell the full story, because you are even more unreasonable.

Your poor behaviour here has led to the both of you treating your child awfully. Poor kid. It has no chance with you as parents.

It wasn't 1 week a month though. You left your daughter for 2.5 weeks in one go. Then went away without her again a number of times. She went overseas to stay with relatives iirc. Then you had a hissy fit about her dad wanting to take her to his home in France in the future because you don't think she should be away from you (🤔) and people told you the court might force you let it happen.

Now you want to take her to the other side of the world, to your home country, claiming your ex agreed to it (though he has no recollection of that 🤔), and wonder if that is abduction. Well, yes, it is. You need his permission to do that. And if you try to go ahead without his permission, the courts can take her off you and give full custody to him.

It was sly because she had several chances to say and yet didn't until she felt it was "too late to say no"

Being as this poster has posted before - she cut his contact to every other week not at his behest.

She's adamant he can't have his daughter to stay with him either (and I think it was Italy or something actually, not a Muslim country) and her reactions would make me think HIGHLY she might be a flight risk with child to abduct them

She also thought it was fine abandon DD for several weeks of "alone holidays" whilst she was UNDER 4 because "DD didn't need her and it would be her last chance before DD did need her"...

@SimplyMother ah ok! I remember your last post, your basically just as bad as each other then.. and a poor child is stuck in the middle of two parents squabbling over petty things!

on your last post I remember sticking up for you, stating that he would need something from the courts/mediation for this agreement to work.. I also said due to my experience (I have friends who work in the legal sector aswell) that it would be highly unlikely for a judge to grant him majority of the holidays especially when the child has school/other activities within this country, they would however take into account the best interests of the child, and being away from you for that length of time is not seen as that, they would look into factors of who decided to move away.. whether they have thought of the child whilst doing this.. and obviously on your last post it wouldn’t be in the child’s best interests to be away from mum for that length of time on a regular basis, people will say what about dad! Again, he chose to move and that will be taken into account.. he made that choice.

however, your in the same position here, do you have a child’s arrangement order? Have you ever attempted mediation? If not.. I can’t see you taking the child away this Christmas holidays. As for the people saying “just get a specific issue order” doesn’t quite work like that.. judges believe at Christmas time especially due to the nature of the holiday that it’s usually within the child’s best interests to see both parents over that period.. hence why a lot of child arrangement orders have the Christmas plans for the years going forward wrote within that.

also a judge can refuse a specific issue order, it won’t always be granted. If I was you I would have been honest with him, told him you was booking it.. I do agree with him though that even at age 4/5 a child missing that much school will naturally put them behind with there peers.. this would also be taken into account if you tried applying for permission from the courts.

if I was you I would possibly try and move the holiday over to August when they are off for the summer.. but this would obviously be the August after.. or you could try the Easter holidays meaning she would only miss one week of school and your ex may be more accommodating for this..

is try and move the holiday to a more suitable time.. you should have been honest.

Don't forget it was fine to go on those trips when DD was little because she didn't "need" her when she was under 4!

Honestly now you've reminded me who she is (she also had a massive issue with how they told DD about the baby) I can definitely see why he's so worried!

We travelled to the US when DD was 7, all the same surnames. We were still stopped going in and Officer asked DD if we were her parents.

Unfortunately she though it wouid be hilarious to answer "No, I don't know these people" slightly uncomfortable conversation after although luckily for us they realised she was being an idiot.

DH also had a contraband mini bag of raisins in his backpack so very relieved situation didn't escalate.

The main reason for us arguing and him claiming abduction is because I can’t move the tickets. It was on a payment plan.

I am unable to refund the tickets for credit or whatever. He thinks I’m lying and isn’t pleased. I told him that we should go to court and he said, “You’re more than welcome to organise mediation. Hopefully agreements will be stuck to.”

He makes comments like these like he’s perfect.

He made comments like that because YOU are the one causing the problem!

He spoke to you about the plans he had and adapted because of what you thought, you deliberately hid from him your plans

@SimplyMother you need to take your focus off him and put it on to your child..

I feel sorry for the child at the centre of this power play. Successful coparenting is not about being perfect or point scoring. You chose to book inflexible tickets without liaising beforehand.

1 week a month on Travel doesn’t sound that bad does it now

Yes it does sound bad. Not for you but for the child.
Travelling one week out of every four weeks is far too much when you have a four/five year old.

What on earth are you thinking?

This child is caught up in the middle of an absolute mess which is going to get an awful lot worse as the child grows her voice.

You both need to talk the bitching out of this and talk sensibly as parents. I am assuming you've given permission for him to take child away to Europe?
Maybe remind him that permissions go both ways and if you need to go to mediation and go to the courts to sort this then no one will be taking child away for a long time - it took my sister months to junp through the hoops if mediation, cafcass etc before it going to court.
Try and work together - get written permission from each other and communicate better. Your child needs parents co-parenting nicely more than long extended holidays

No.....before 4 months
She broke up with him at 4 months

No? We were friends for a while, and were together for 4 months when I got pregnant. But I only found out 5 months later (9 months into our relationship).

From there things got sour and we broke up about 2 years later.

He did not want to marry you. You’re mad he married someone else.

You should have mentioned it when you were discussing Christmas 2024 last month. So what if it wasn't paid off at that point. You were intending to pay it off and you should have discussed it with him.
You will need permission from him to take the child abroad - I'm not sure of what exactly. You should check this.

I think you were being deliberately evasive. Especially now it turns out you are the poster objecting to ex taking the child to the EU country and claiming he wants her to live there when in fact he was talking about her going there for holidays. I remember that thread. You were being unreasonable on that thread too.

You had the experience then?

Yes but it wasn’t a priority at the time.

Even when I could have mentioned it, I forgot. As the conversation had closed, I thought it would have been best to wait.

As we weren’t discussing it there and then, and the holiday wasn’t paid off, I thought it’d be best not to.

That's not "I forgot", that's deliberately not telling him.