Booked holiday with DC - ex claiming abduction - AIBU.

[SimplyMother]

Hello all, a co-parent disagreement has arisen with me and ex. I’m worried as my partner is saying my actions may be seen as international abduction.

I told my ex that I’d like to take our child to a North American country for Christmas. I am born there but have been here since youth. It has been mentioned over the few years, and I reminded him if he’d be okay with it in Dec 23, for the next Christmas. As he was okay with it, I had booked the trip in January, and told him recently as it has now been paid off. The holiday is for 3 weeks.

He texted back, “shocked,” and claimed that he never knew that it would be for this year. I said he knew and he said he didn’t remember, and it was never seriously told to him in writing. He expressed discontent with the length, as it would take our then 4 year old out of school for 2 weeks - he claimed that he would’ve given the winter holiday if I asked but I don’t believe it. He also claimed that 3 weeks is too long for an announced country that is my “home country, that isn’t classed as very safe.” He’s saying that as it was booked behind his back, what I’m doing can be classed as international abduction.

He hasn’t threatened me, but says that he is not in agreement. And he says if I go, if there are repercussions with the school, I should deal with it alone. He says that when he asked last month to discuss Christmas 2024, I should’ve brought it up then - I didn’t as it wasn’t paid off yet.

Am I wrong - is it abduction? I plan to return, my life is here.

Morality and school aside, you both need a consent letter from the other parent to take the child out of the country given there is no court arrangement in place.

You will need his permission to go if he has parental responsibility ( on the birth certificate). So that will be a letter from the dad and birth certificate. If you want to go and he won’t let you then you can go to court and get their permission. It’s around £110-150 I can’t remember at the top of my head. They basically ask where and why your going. This only covers the one trip. Every trip he refuses you need to reapply.

no repercussions from school he's only 4 and legally doesn't have to attend

I think you should have shared dates and been prepared to compromise, like he did with the EU trip.

There may also be other differences:

1. Is he travelling during term time, or school holidays only, for the EU trip? Missing school should be agreed with both parents.
2. The Christmas period is a special time for many parents and this will have a bigger impact than travelling at other times of the year.
3. The country you are visiting is important. I'd be more happy about an ex-partner taking my child to Germany, rather than Mexico, as an example.

https://www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

The surname thing is irrelevant @SimplyMother .

An adult travelling alone with a minor is more likely to be questioned if the surnames are different, but that's only one of the reasons someone may be stopped.

We all have the same surname. As above the advice was to take birth certificate and a letter of permission. DH took the same when he travelled a week later with our other DC.

Of course you should've mentioned being away over Christmas when he said to discuss in November!

And YABU with the "I forgot" to mention he's been away with DC for three weeks.

It seems like your ex is irritated because you weren't upfront about the specific dates holiday. It sounds like he is being a little dramatic with his language though as he has said that you will need to deal with any consequences with the school (of which there are none). To me, it sounds as though he isn't going to be reporting an abduction. He knows that you could make his life difficult for his 3 week holiday. I would get written consent prior to his holiday, while you have leverage.

I do think it was a little sneaky to not mention the holiday until it was paid for.
Either way, you will now need to apply to the court to take DD away, because he could well prevent you from leaving.

If they are back for New Year then it sounds like only half of the Christmas period.

Do you have his initial (or any...) agreement in writing?

Will they miss their Reception nativity? If I was the other parent I think I'd be more upset by that, the whole class will be practising in the lead up. Christmas, not so much a big deal as it's a 12 day period and a get together and presents can be done on their return.

You need permission from those with parental responsibility to take a child abroad and it could be classed as abduction if you don't have consent.

Very sneaky of you, especially as he asked to discuss Christmas 2024 arrangements with you in January and you wouldn't. If I were him, I would be suspicious of your motives for this trip.

Even if what you say is true- that you're intending to return to the UK- it's really mean to take your daughter away from her Dad for such a long holiday over Christmas. You could have taken her to meet your family at any time- it didn't have to be over Christmas.

However- it does mean that you've set a precedent, so he can equally book a long holiday over Christmas with his daughter in future years.

I think it’s more selfish of him to deny his child a chance to meet their family, because a holiday wasn’t done the way he wanted it to be done
No it really isn't. That's your thought process to try to justify the selfish choice YOU have made.

That's exactly how conflict between parents explodes. In the end, you're left with kids who wouldn't trade any trips to America to have parents who get along and respect each other.

Leaving aside the arguments of whether it’s fair and who said what…

Have you got a child arrangements order? If you do, and it says the child lives with you, then you have the legal right to do this, assuming you’re not breaking any other court orders (eg court ordered weekly contact). It is not abduction if you return.

If you don’t have the order, then you need his permission to take her abroad, as he needs yours.

You need to sort this out legally, especially if he’s likely to kick up a fuss (eg call the airline).

100%

My DC is 16. I am getting divorced in a European country. I have been forbidden from going to the UK on holiday until I am divorced and everything is in writing as it would or could be abduction.

I have been stopped in the past and DC questioned btw.

@Kalevala they're going on the 23rd for three weeks!

So away for a lot longer than NY!

I don't think it's fair for such a young child to be away from either parent that long around Xmas.

I read it as initial conversation was in December 2023, not that that was departure date. How else would dc miss two weeks of school?

They said they'd discussed it in December 23, meaning 2023. Then that the father would have a few days for New Year, suggesting that it would be the last two weeks of term that would be missed.

Leaving on the 23rd would have actually been better as the child could have joined in Reception Christmas activities, then done Christmas with Dad the weekend of solstice.

If you’re separated I think you’re going to need a permission to fly from him regardless of names on the birth certificate.

I agree 3 weeks is too long, & are his concerns about your home country being unsafe genuine? You should of discussed it before you paid it off…