Booked holiday with DC - ex claiming abduction - AIBU.

[SimplyMother]

Hello all, a co-parent disagreement has arisen with me and ex. I’m worried as my partner is saying my actions may be seen as international abduction.

I told my ex that I’d like to take our child to a North American country for Christmas. I am born there but have been here since youth. It has been mentioned over the few years, and I reminded him if he’d be okay with it in Dec 23, for the next Christmas. As he was okay with it, I had booked the trip in January, and told him recently as it has now been paid off. The holiday is for 3 weeks.

He texted back, “shocked,” and claimed that he never knew that it would be for this year. I said he knew and he said he didn’t remember, and it was never seriously told to him in writing. He expressed discontent with the length, as it would take our then 4 year old out of school for 2 weeks - he claimed that he would’ve given the winter holiday if I asked but I don’t believe it. He also claimed that 3 weeks is too long for an announced country that is my “home country, that isn’t classed as very safe.” He’s saying that as it was booked behind his back, what I’m doing can be classed as international abduction.

He hasn’t threatened me, but says that he is not in agreement. And he says if I go, if there are repercussions with the school, I should deal with it alone. He says that when he asked last month to discuss Christmas 2024, I should’ve brought it up then - I didn’t as it wasn’t paid off yet.

Am I wrong - is it abduction? I plan to return, my life is here.

I think it's underhand to not tell him in advance and it would break my heart to not see my 4 year old for 3 weeks over Christmas.

I think your best way forward is to apologise for the confusion (whoever is responsible), say you will be responsible for any repercussions from school (there shouldn't be any as she's 4) and then sort any legalities needed giving each other permission for these two 3 week holidays. You know you were sneaky this time but try to clear the air so you can enjoy your holiday (and be prepared for your DD spending all of Christmas 2025 with her father).

I am a bit surprised at suggestions that New Year celebrations equate in any way to Christmas for a 4 year old.

Off topic slightly - but in my experience they only seem to check documents on the way into to the UK which seems absurd.

You both need each others permission to travel and as your child is 4 you have many years where good will on both sides will be helpful so it is better to cooperate and be open with each other.

regards to missing school - at 4 it’s not really a problem.

The only way of getting around this is to apply to the court by way of a C100 (you'll have to attempt mediation first, and obtain a MIAM from the mediator if the other side doesn't engage - which they may not in order to prolong the process), and ask for a Specific Issue Order to take the child abroad for that length of time. Whilst the child doesn't legally have to be in formal education until the term after they turn 5, the courts don't often allow holidays during term time, so a bit of information regarding "they will learn about X country by exploring Y museum in Z place" as well as highlighting the fact they will spend time getting to know their wider family is imperative.

The courts are currently inundated so I would get this started ASAP. Cost of C100 is currently £232, if you receive benefits or are on a low income you can get help with fees (form EX160).

Is her Dad named on the birth certificate? Does he have parental responsibility?

If you are in England then there will be no fine for missing two weeks of school in reception class. They only start fines for missing school in year 1 onwards. And 100% certainty she will not lose her place in the school for missing two weeks.

And if he going to refuse you permission to take your child on holiday for three weeks, then surely you can turn round and say the same about his planned three week holiday?! He’s an idiot.

It's not very clear whether he agreed to this or. Or. Was it discussed on email or text message, did you say 'I'm booking this holiday for these dates' and he agreed?

Or was it all a bit wishy washy half hearted in passing conversation?

Does she have a good relationship with the grandparents shel be in her own with for 2 weeks now his trip?

3 weeks is a long time and it sounds like you might have been vague with him. Can you shorten the holiday?

But why does it have to be for so long and over Christmas?

And he says if I go, if there are repercussions with the school, I should deal with it alone.

Why shouldn't you? Do you still take responsibility for his rule breaking?

Regardless of who thinks what is fair or underhanded. You have booked it he is not going to agree therefore you need to start the mediation and court process ASAP for permission otherwise you will be arrested at the airport if you just continue the back and forth.

@madameparis Yes, he is a legal custodian on the birth certificate.

Also check with your LA or academy trust if it is not a maintained school

Some have a policy of taking children off role for an absence of three weeks or more. You could lose your school place and would need to apply for another when you return.

This is not so risky if the school has places and no waiting list, but if it oversubscribed with a waiting list it will be full by the time you reapply and you will be offered another school.

There will also be a wait while this is processed.

Doesn't matter if you have the same surname, you need a letter of permission from him or a contact agreement. In most European countries you probably would get away with it. But not North America. You will 100% be asked.

I was asked on entry back into the UK even with a UK passport and they wanted to see all my documents including birth certificates, notarised court documents.

I travelled regularly with my DD from 9 months old between the UK and USA - I always got DH to do me a signed and notarized letter saying I had his permission - I was never asked for it though.

We all had same surnames but DD and I had different passports. I stopped bothering with the letter when she turned about ten years old.

I am a bit surprised at suggestions that New Year celebrations equate in any way to Christmas for a 4 year old.

You just do a Christmas family get together and presents a week later. There are twelve days of celebrations anyway.

You are unreasonable for not discussing because it wasn't paid off...did you just not mention it in a whole conversation?

So he has asked you about his trip and you just dumped your trip on him. This is nothing to do with it being a North American country and all to do with how you've approached it.

Legal custodian? You mean father?

You deliberately kept this from him until you had paid, thinking that it was a deal done once you had.

Your silly games and point scoring with your ex are going to make for an extremely unhappy child. Do you even care about that?

Overwhelming majority saying you’re being unreasonable and you’re just adamantly stating “no, I’m not” with poor excuses to each response. Why bother asking if you’re not prepared for people to disagree with you? If you’re in the UK you will need his written permission and he can take out a prohibited steps order through the courts to stop you so you’ve had fair warning. You’re deliberately causing an unnecessary and very much avoidable inflammatory issue within your co-parenting set up. You’re not thinking of what’s best for your child and not half as respectful of him as he is of you it seems. He is the father, you chose to have sex and create a baby as an “adult” with this man. Time to suck it up carry it on through your child’s life and put them first and not yourself. You’re not the centre of the universe and your child won’t benefit at all by being taken out of school for this either.

You need to tell people the full story here. Your ex planning to move back to his home country in a few years with his wife to raise their family. He wants for your joint daughter to go there during his time with her. You do not want him to take her to his country. You have already cut his contact with her by half. You do not think she should be away from you (despite you spending 10 weeks away from her over the past 4 or 5 months). Meanwhile, while all this arguing is going on, you just happened to fail to tell him that you are planning to take your daughter to North America for 3 weeks? Behave yourself. He has every right to worry about you abducting his child. You have made it very clear that you don't want him having her.

Can you tell us what country? If it’s genuinely unsafe at the moment then he’s entitled to prevent that. Depending on where you live, he can raise a prohibited steps order in court to prevent you from doing this without his agreement. If a judge agrees YABU then the travel won’t be permitted. My DH and his ex wife coparent and I can’t imagine either of them taking my DSD away over Christmas! To remove a child from half of her family during Christmas time seems very unfair to me. He’s being OTT about the school aspect, 4 isn’t compulsory education age and she won’t be kicked out of anywhere. I’d say it’s in your interests to reach an agreement - my DH was told by his family solicitor that both he and his ex would need the others permission to travel abroad with my DSD - we carry a letter signed by her Mum when travelling and vice versa.

Ah!! Just realised this is the same OP!! Why am I not surprised?

I would be concerned if I was him. A family member of mine was taken on holiday by her dad to his birth country and never returned. It led to years of hell for her mother. Three weeks is plenty of time to disappear and if I was him I’d be worried you had some plan - I’m not saying you are but that would be my concern if I was him

You are being completely unfair to your child, let alone the father. Even if you don't give a shit about him, think how your 5 year old will feel not seeing their dad for so long over Christmas, a time where everywhere you look, it's all about family and loved ones.

This isn't about just your feelings anymore, or who's winning, or right. You need to set all that to one side and try and look at the whole situation with neutrality and do what's best for your child. Perhaps making the trip but not over Xmas would be a start