To ask what you think when you see a white woman and a Muslim man?

[Weallknowfrogsgo]

White non markedly Muslim or other wise woman and a Muslim man together, clearly in a relationship? What do you think?

as this is an anonymous forum, please do be honest.

after that thread about the woman marrying and arab, it strikes me that a lot of people have some quite strong opinions on this, and the convert to Islam threads on here also have been quite telling

disclaimer this is me, despite living in a very multicultural place, we do get looks here and there and boundless questions on our relationship that tbh aren’t very appropriate to ask a stranger whenever we meet new people. And if we go someplace less diverse the looks are more apparent.

I don't think anything of it tbh. Unless someone is very obviously dressed in traditional clothes, I wouldn't always know that they were Muslim in any case - Islam covers so many ethnicities that could be virtually any other religion as well.

I do raise an eyebrow if I hear that someone has converted to their partner's religion. I never really understand why this is a thing - surely people don't suddenly start believing in something because they happen to be in a relationship with someone?

And I would advise a friend to think very carefully about living/marrying into a Muslim country where women's rights are limited. That's just common sense, surely?

But a relationship between a Muslim man and a non-Muslim woman here in the UK? Wouldn't bat an eyelid personally.

I think all relationships where the two partners have had very different upbringings can be quite challenging*, especially if one or both families has strong religious views or is from a country that is culturally very different, or their extended families are on two different continents so I usually assume there must be a lot of love there to have made the relationship worth fighting for.

Obviously, how much marrying into a religion affects the non-religious spouse is going to depend on how extensively the religion influences their day to day life, and how conservatively the religious partner/their family are in adhering to the rule book (applies to all religions).

I do worry about how religion can be used to oppress women but non-religious ideology can be used in the same manner.

*I’m English and was married to an American and that was pretty tricky, despite being more culturally similar than many international couples.

@CammyChameleon a revert is also a convert. We prefer to say we reverted as we believe we are all born Muslim and not raised as a Muslim but we come to the religion later.

Its the same.

To clarify I am white British. Raised Christian. Reverted/converted to islam.

I think if someone is so religious that it shapes their day to day dress then they would only be married to another muslim, white or otherwise.

That's just bizarre - "born Muslim" when you grew up in a British Christian household. Why did you convert to islam? Do you have a Muslim spouse?

@CammyChameleon well its what we say..you don't have to understand it

I reverted after reading and studying many religions.

I am married to a Muslim. I got married 5 years after I converted. 2 seperate things

Nothing. Someone else's romantic interests/choices are not my concern as they don't have any effect on me.

How would one know he's a Muslim? I mean unless he's wearing an Abaya i don't know how you'd tell?
Anyway even if he had huge neon lights shining above his head saying 'Muslim' i wouldn't think anything (well I might covet the neon sign coz I'm a bit of a magpie liking bright shiny stuff!).
Seriously who has the time to give stuff like this headspace. I couldn't give a tuppence for anyones religious beliefs, so long as they don't spout anything at me (looking at you bro and your endless JW dogma, just give it a rest seriously you'll never convert this heathen!), it's cool, just live and let live.

This is TAAT. In the thread, the op described herself as young and travelling solo to get married. Questions were around is the country safe, is the situation safe?

When I was in my early 20s, I travelled to South Africa with a casual boyfriend and I had known for a couple of months. My Dad was really horrified by this, at the time there were no smart phones or tracking apps.

I think you need to risk assess situations, particularly when it comes to travel.

But, I wouldn't judge a couple with different faiths.

It sounds like a cult suggesting you were predestined to become part of it tbh and cannot understand why a western woman would want to limit herself to covering her hair and suchlike.

@CammyChameleon Well that's what you think. It's not up to me to change your mind.

I'm happy with my life. I have my own business and children and we are happy. If you think I'm brainwashed then that's what you think.

You don't have to understand why ither people do the things they are do. I'm not hurting anyone.

Also my step dad was a convert to Sikhism before he met my mum. No ones worried about that either.

I would worry for the woman only because based on white British women I've known who married Muslim men, the men were either controlling or abusive.

I had a friend at primary school who's mum had only moved her to marry. She spoke virtually no English but she (actually mum and daughter) was beautiful with incredibly long black hair, and beautiful brightly coloured shalwar kamis and she came into school to teach us how to make roti or something. I went to their house for tea.

When my friend turned 8 she wasn't allowed to get changed for PE with everyone else....I suppose that's fair enough.
Then she left our primary school and went to an all girls secondary school (which did have a higher proportion muslims)
When I saw her again 6 yrs later at college she was wearing a full length black head and body cloak. And no make up
So different to what her mum had been like 10 yrs earlier.

It was a patter that repeated a lot around then. Girls I grew up with that were very western suddenly becoming far more devout.

I have seen a reversal in the last 10 years or so as their children now become teens and their is much more fluidity. I have friends who may where very Muslim dress one day and jeans and t-shirt next day. Families out celebrating eid recently very few women and girls wore a full head covering, if any, let alone a veil.
The presence of more modest but mainstream fashions has made it OK to wear your own style without completely disregarding your faith.

The OP is asking about the stereotypes and deep seated racist views on seeing the scenario she suggested -
if im honest (white British woman) if i dwelled on it i would think :
hope she’s treated as an equal
hope she’s not hidden from rest of his family
hope her MIL isn’t an interfering dragon - because of all the posts i read here about Asian in laws etc

so I think I would go along the lines of concern for the woman !

very aware this is stereotyping and racist …. ☹️

Brainwashed is a fantastic word.

@CammyChameleon whatever. I'm happy. That's it really

It's none of my business and I probably wouldn't think anything if we passed on the street, but thinking generally, I'm not sure it's the best foundation for a marriage if a couple have markedly different religious/spiritual beliefs and religion is very central to one or both of them.
I am delighted to hear of people who have had long and happy marriages despite significant faith differences, though.

This is old old history ,There is ''multiculturalism'' now - for about 40+ years -
unless you live in a very remote place (or under a rock).

This thread is really interesting for me to read as an American who lives in an area where most Muslims are from Somalia. Around here, people don’t assume that Arab/Middle Eastern equals Muslim, because there are a lot of Middle Eastern Christians in the area. My husband’s heritage is part Lebanese, and his family is completely Christian and has been since time immemorial.

I don’t have the best impression of the Somali Muslim families around here. They put their daughters in hijabs while they’re still wearing diapers/nappies. On sweltering hot days, I’ll see families out walking and the women and girls have only their hands and faces visible, while the men and boys are wearing t-shirts and shorts. Every once in a while I’ll see a white American woman dressed like this and think, “you’ve got to be kidding me.” I don’t know why you’d decide to cover more skin than the Amish if you weren’t raised that way.

So if I saw a white woman in a romantic relationship with one of the Muslim men around here, I’d be concerned. Somalia has a very high rate of FGM and there have been a couple dozen Somalis around here convicted of terrorism-related charges. If I were in the UK, I’d be less concerned because you seem to have a bigger range of assimilated Muslims over there.

sorry I’m at work so not read everything.

to be crystal clear, this thread was for honest conversation, because the responses on lot of the Muslim related posts on MN have been very harsh towards anything Muslim. Especially re converts and people marrying muslims.

to me personally, I did become Muslim but if you saw me in the street you’d assume that I wasn’t Muslim as I don’t wear a scarf typical Muslim woman attire

as to who to recognise as Muslim, im painting with a broad brush as to those who are visibly Muslim, will it be all? No, of course not but it’s some

@Weallknowfrogsgo but what do you class as visibly Muslim? People in religious get up? I think no more of them than I do of people in smart clothing going to church. You say you’re Muslim but you seem to be wanting everyone to stereotype.

tbh if I saw an ‘obviously’ muslim man like how you’ve described, in what appears to be a romantic relationship with a white western woman, I would probably assume you had converted, even if not dressing the part. If he outwardly appeared to be a traditional, practicing muslim then it would be strange to me if you weren’t, as normally someone making sure to dress ‘devout’ would want a practicing (as i thought this is required) muslim spouse. I’m generalising though, and don’t live in a multicultural area, so this may differ in real life. But in my experience, devout practicing muslim men normally require their partners to convert before marriage/dating. I wouldn’t especially care, but would probably hope you’ve converted out of your own faith views, and not just to appease the guy or his family.

This is the same within other religions though. I grew up in a fairly closed/christian community and this was also the expectation, though you can’t tell automatically from the men’s outward clothing.

I am a white woman (non Muslim) married to a Muslim Turkish man but I don't think people would necessarily know he was Muslim just from looking at him.
If we meet people they are usually just interested in where he comes from and he is always happy to tell them.
We live in London though so most people take no notice of this kind of thing.

well you want an honest answer so here goes-

I'd feel sorry for her, hope she isn't going to be abused and controlled by her husband. I also frankly think she's stupid, Islam is not a religion that is friendly towards women. There are SO MANY women who realize far too late how abusive their husbands are and that they're trapped.

Being trapped is a best case scenario, physical abuse and the threat of taking their children to live in a foreign country where mother has zero rights and may never see her babies again is a very real fear.

I worked w/a woman who married a muslim man, she was definitely trapped in the marriage. She said many nights he kept her awake all night as he ranted about Islam and western culture yet he happily came to america to make a nice living and enjoyed all the good parts of the culture while secretly hating it. That's a nonsensical way to live so of course he was conflicted and took it out on his beautiful wife.

It's not a smart risk to take imho.

Haven’t read anything more than your initial post but…
what does a Muslim man look like??????