"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

[DistinguishedSocialCommentator]

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

Thing is, how do you stop the illegal traffickers/smugglers? You don’t. They see a market for this so they’re exploiting it.

You seriously think the illegal traffickers and smugglers will stop because the UK and other countries ask them nicely to stop?

Tbh if Rwanda is a deterrent then logic might suggest that eventually the flow of boats into the U.K. will stop and any associated flow into Ireland would also stop.

What I notice is that, entirely predicatably, Labour will not give a timetable to scrap it when in office. That might suggest that they will find it useful to keep for themselves. Politics is a cynical game and I would not be thinking there will be a swift change post an election in the U.K. Labour will be less trolling of Irish politics but since they are sticking with Brexit I don't think you will get some immediate return to being helpful. The domestic position in the U.K. won't have changed that much in six months if at all.

Interesting take on the reverse

Aus Labor did not for obvious reasons, the Liberals are also more likely to introduce a tough law but Labor were not mad enough to scrap it.

Apparently the agreement was made when the flow was in the other direction, no returns were made though and I’m not sure how they can with such an open border. That flow has now reversed.

If the deterrent does work then I suppose Ireland will see a slow down. Whether Starmer sticks to scrapping it or not I guess we’ll see.

Finlesswonder · Today 09:21
The bottom line is we don't owe anyone anything, hence the rise of the far right across Europe

Finless, you said upthread ‘As a nation of emigrants, Ireland can and should take more immigrants.’
Your recent comment sounds contradictory but maybe I’m misunderstanding.

To add the EU is very slow moving, it’s taken years to get to the new policy position so I’m not sure what a swing to the right will do in a short timeframe

If US gets more hardline and Starmer reverses we will be the most attractive end point for trafficking, I’m not sure people realise what marketing and funds they have at their disposal

Jennifer O'Connell writes well about this situation in the Irish Times yesterday. The only thing is that the moral imperative she suggests is going to be tested like never before in terms of costs and political management.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/05/04/we-shouldnt-import-broken-british-rhetoric-about-migration/

@CoalHouseDoor - I’m just not sure this concern about Muslim men is rooted in reality. Look at the numbers for a start. 100,000 refugees are from Ukraine and a tiny 20,000 are from various other countries. Most Muslim men are here under a visa system: and idea that there is an invasion or an influx of men who want to attack women is simply not true. Secondly - There hasn’t been a link between the arrival of refugees and crime here.

I agree with you - I don’t think we should dismiss people’s concerns as racist; but the fallacies that are circulating about refugees do come from a place of racism and in particular Islamophobia. We should be careful to be factual.

@bombastix excellent article.

I gotta say if Starmer does reverse I predicted all this about two years ago so all that flack

Then people get there ages after

Annoying 😂

I can only do about two years after that it could go anywhere

I think you cannot assume a reverse but probably what happens is a tale as old as time. The legislation is not used. And active repeal does not occur.

The legislation is widely predicted not to work; it seems unlikely. Sunak is apparently making an effort to use it.

What is more interesting is that the legislation proscribed asylum claims made by those entering by boat. If there is an an alternative lawful route for asylum, you will likely find that part will remain as law. That is my best guess based on what Labour have said so far.

Rwanda is such an extreme policy that I think there is quite a lot of room to do something else. But politically, Keir Starmer would lack all sense ri make this first on his list of things to do if he wins an election. It has destroyed Rishi Sunak (who didn't even agree with it originally) and the lesson is clear on that one!

I don’t see why it won’t be used, it’s clear reform are building and they’ve spent two years getting it through.

The problem Labour will have imo is how to not be a huge attraction to traffickers once they get rid of deterrents whatever they are and as other countries harden their borders.

I think any claim gangs can be smashed are wild and I’m not sure how such flimsy writing and policy is there

Ah but if they don't get rid of it, but they keep the bar in place, and make direct returns, you need never send anyone to Rwanda. I think it's likely that that part as to safety is untested in law. It may not be sound.

Don't get me wrong, for political optics this current government must try to do this. But it would not surprise me if they are totally unsuccessful.

It is the bar to asylum claims I think matters long term. If you can never claim in the UK by this route (and there is some respectable legal argument on that) then I think that will stay.

I have serious doubts on Rwanda working at all.

I think alternative location can work but it takes a lot. Aus style is huge and they are on it every day.

Politically it’s bipartisan now

The issue imo may be appeals but I can see there was very little room to do much with a threatened ending

I think they’ll do it, as for work I don’t underestimate traffickers and how they sell in get arounds and that is a difference to Aus plus the rest

We can’t direct return though? Only Albania recently

If we could do all countries then that would stop trafficking, but it’s not an option?

Plus it’s all that’s possible within the law anyway atm

In my town we have quite a large group of the 'single male' asylum seekers hoised here that seems to spike everyone's fears. The other day I was out running and met about 15 of them coming towards me on the footpath. There was no footpath on the otherside and it was a reasonably busy road. I have to admit for a minute I did think shit, I don't want to have to make my way through all of these men. The minute they noticed me they all moved into single file and scooted up against the wall to let me pass by. I was astonished, the locals will walk 3 abreast and expect you to go out onto the road if moving over is part of the 'culture' they are bringing I'm here for it.

I think they have been here about 6 months at this point, the only uptick in crime in that time has been a wave of violence associated with a traveller feud. I haven't heard of a single incident of them harassing or causing trouble to anyone. We have recently gotten a new Arab food store though which has spices I couldn't get without travelling 40mins to our nearest city so that's a bonus to me.

I’ve lived many years as both girl and woman in majority Muslim countries. There is seismically very different culture and attitude between the sexes. Many of my Muslim female friends are happy with it. I am not and it’s why I don’t live there.

@mollyfolk you’re right, the demographics are currently different to say UK or Sweden or France, but once they change, you may find things are less comfortable. There are direct correlations between rates of immigration and sexual
crime, by independent health bodies, not just reactionary scaremongering.

I think one person allowed to pass on a path and be able to buy spices is a facile dismissal of women who are beaten or stoned for not covering in other cultures.

The level of privilege and naivety in some of these comments is breathtaking.

I think they have been here about 6 months at this point

Yeah, think that might be the clue right there.

Check back in with us when the community has tripled and its been 6 years.

In case of any doubt, go and read up on Rochdale or Bradford or Molenbeek in Brussels and have a think whether you reckon the men there are letting women walk by without hassle.

We aren't in another country though. Nobody is being stoned here and there is no indication at all that that would happen in Ireland. Why you are bringing that into the topic of conversation unless to try and scare women is beyond me.

@Finlesswonder I don't have to read up on those things. I lived in one of those places that you mention for a number of years and have family that have lived there for their entire lives. They are all actively anti racist and have been since the 1970s.

I will stick to judging people on how I find them rather than pigeon holing them from the moment they rock up.

We aren't in another country though. Nobody is being stoned here and there is no indication at all that that would happen in Ireland

Just like FGM absolutely doesn't happen in the UK, right?

Are you saying people are being stoned in the UK? Obviously FGM is horrendous but your post just reads like you are throwing it in there to score points.

In Ireland like in the UK I'm sure we have lots of paedophiles, lots of men who have abused the children in their families, the children they have worked with etc. Do you think that every Irish or British man that moves abroad should be shunned in society, that there should be campaigns to keep them out, maybe they should be shipped off to Rwanda because child abuse happens? I mean I'm surprised members of the Catholic church are allowed to travel anywhere at all given all that has happened here.

I think this is a disingenuous point.

We are talking here about deep-seated pejorative cultural attitudes to women, which in those countries of origin are not only acceptable but enshrined in law.

That is not the case in the west, nor has it been for some (admittedly woefully short) time.

And there are areas of Belgium and Sweden where western women are at best uncomfortable to walk and where sexual attacks have risen by a dizzying number at the same rate as uncontrolled, often illegal, immigration.

I am attempting to draw nuanced distinctions between cultural attitudes to women. These exist.

I am also concerned that women who share their concerns over large numbers of unvetted men appearing in their communities are gagged and dismissed as racists.

It is frightening on many levels to see these worries driven underground.

I hope there is some vetting. I think this relevation makes one wonder if that is another load of bs not based on data or evidence. This is a bizarre situation where the Irish authorities were informed by the UK authorities about a man convicted of a sex offence. He was on the sex offenders register in the UK. Never mind taking action, the Irish authorities redacted the information on his papers.

Don’t get me wrong, it is the Irish authorities I don’t trust. Maybe Irish chappies thought it was not a problem if it is only women he assaults. It is sober reading.

https://archive.is/XC8f0

On the subject of Ireland taking migrants. I think 20% of people in Ireland were born elsewhere. According to the 2023 Census. Uk has a figure of 14.8%, I think.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpsr/censusofpopulation2022-summaryresults/migrationanddiversity/

Thank you @TextureSeeker - I will also continue to judge people as I find them. I am part of a community group that supports refugees and I’ve met lovely people, extraordinary people and horrible people; much like people anywhere. I’ve worked for years with marginalised groups and it’d common to have sweeping generalisations can be applied to them.

Once the GE is announced, IMO, this small flow to Ireland will good as stop as the left-wing Labour lot have no plans to deport anyone.

What utter shite.

What do you mean? They won’t stop deportation?