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"Migrants going to Ireland," states Rishi Sunak PM

535 replies

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 28/04/2024 17:05

AIBU to believe this is fake news, hype at best??

Indeed, some may be going to "Ireland,! and may have been doing so
for the last two years anyway.s or so.

Therefore, what was the number of migrants/boat people that went to Ireland from Jan 1st and Dec 31st in 2022 and the year ending 2023??

As I've said many times, I don't trust any politician or political party for that matter as they are on the whole, in it for themselves.

Message to Rishi Sunak, PM - Please give us the numbers. (I bet you it is no different to what was happening previously)

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

Rishi Sunak says migrants going to Ireland shows Rwanda scheme is working as a deterrent

Ireland's deputy prime minister has said migrants who arrived in the UK on small boats are crossing from Northern Ireland to the Republic. Speaking to Sky's Trevor Phillips, Rishi Sunak says that it shows the deterrent is working.

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-says-migrants-going-to-ireland-shows-rwanda-scheme-is-working-as-a-deterrent-13123815#:~:text=Migrants%20travelling%20to%20Ireland%20after,was%20%22exporting%20the%20problem%22.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Evanna13 · 03/05/2024 09:56

Sunak won't be there for long, if today's election results are anything to go by!

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 09:58

Replaced? I guess we’ll see

Whoever it is will like that press. GE could resolve it whenever that is then we likely keep the extra people

Unicornpoopsykins · 03/05/2024 12:02

At the end of the day ireland should be kind. If the UK is no longer a safe place for them to go, they need to be cared for

Goldenbear · 03/05/2024 17:13

Unicornpoopsykins · 03/05/2024 12:02

At the end of the day ireland should be kind. If the UK is no longer a safe place for them to go, they need to be cared for

Yes, Ireland could take the moral higher ground and be kind.

W0rkerBee · 03/05/2024 18:52

Finlesswonder · 03/05/2024 07:32

"We are a small country".
Not this again. It gets wheeled out for anything from football results to racist immigration policies.

As a nation of emigrants, Ireland can and should take more immigrants.

It may bore you but it's true.

W0rkerBee · 03/05/2024 18:57

Give me a break. We have taken so many legal immigrants and has been doing so for 30 years, you think we owe an easier life to any illegal/ assylum seeker??

Marblessolveeverything · 03/05/2024 20:01

bombastix · 30/04/2024 09:52

The really key thing is the border. Ireland must return to the mainland UK. If it doesn't, it is completely stuffed as the border is soft.

Any asylum seeker can therefore just return over the border when they like.

The issue of returning to the UK lawfully will all be about the point of entry. And I would expect that an individual asylum seeker will not say where they came into Ireland.

The issue is that Ireland need to say, UK, we have lawful authority to return to the mainland of the UK. And you need a lot of cooperation for that to happen. The law has to work.

Eh no thanks mate 😂we don't want to join the UK . We are an independent nation. Heads up we are an island just like you the "mainland" is Europe.

bombastix · 03/05/2024 20:35

Wow well done for totally missing the context of "return"

Marblessolveeverything · 03/05/2024 22:31

"Ireland must return to the mainland UK."

@bombastix maybe your English is letting you down....

mollyfolk · 03/05/2024 23:06

CoalHouseDoor · 03/05/2024 08:18

I think the other elephant is the non-vetting issue.

When Blair started this, I remember a gay colleague moving back to his homeland because he was worried that many Eastern European migrants were homophobic, and he feared a change in our culture.

Then there was the issue of destroyed records, or sexual crimes being classified differently in other EE countries (eg rape = sexual misconduct).

Some of those fears, thirty years ago, were founded.

And now it’s an almost exclusively male immigrant profile, totally unvetted, propping up a system of people trafficking, from cultures that do not respect women.

Even one acid attack, rape or murder is too many. But we have seen them.

An Irish woman who said that made her afraid was called a racist.

Asylum seekers are not completely “un vetted” . They are fingered-printed and registered on arrival and searched for on international criminal databases. So they are more vetted than your average Joe Soap! This type of idea, that asylum seekers are all inherently dangerous, is rooted in racism.

mollyfolk · 03/05/2024 23:20

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 08:36

But you’re already seeing the result of the threat now with extra people

Why Will that change once it actually starts?

Nobody has actually proved that there are extra people coming here because of the Rwanda plan. They were probably coming over the border for years. A definitive link is yet to be shown.

Laidbackguy · 03/05/2024 23:31

Psychoticbreak · 28/04/2024 17:52

However going back to us being mythical sure you only have to look at the twats that voted for brexit and when asked questions about Ireland genuinely did not know 26 of our counties were nothing to do with them.

I'm glad to see after 8 years you've come to terms with not getting your own way.

EasternStandard · 04/05/2024 07:02

mollyfolk · 03/05/2024 23:20

Nobody has actually proved that there are extra people coming here because of the Rwanda plan. They were probably coming over the border for years. A definitive link is yet to be shown.

Well that’s up to Ireland to decide, the 80% headlines are coming from there

Evanna13 · 04/05/2024 08:09

Marblessolveeverything · 03/05/2024 22:31

"Ireland must return to the mainland UK."

@bombastix maybe your English is letting you down....

I can see how you read it that way if you havn't read the full thread but here the poster is talking about returning the immigrants.

Marblessolveeverything · 04/05/2024 08:45

@Evanna13 thanks.

CoalHouseDoor · 04/05/2024 11:52

mollyfolk · 03/05/2024 23:06

Asylum seekers are not completely “un vetted” . They are fingered-printed and registered on arrival and searched for on international criminal databases. So they are more vetted than your average Joe Soap! This type of idea, that asylum seekers are all inherently dangerous, is rooted in racism.

Many arrive, as I’m sure you’re aware, without documentation and sometimes even fingerprints.

Any concern is rooted in a perfectly understandable concern at an uncontrolled arrival of large numbers of men (from a culture I know very well) with very different ideas about the place and role of women in society.

Knee-jerk dismissal of such worries as ‘racism’ does nothing to help anyone. We need adult conversations about why it’s happening, how to tackle the shocking human traffic chains, the smugglers who are profiting like kings and the clash of cultures.

Finland did some depressing work around ten years ago showing that there was no appetite for assimilation from
illegal immigrants or asylum seekers or however you wish to frame it.

It’s a ticking time bomb. We should be asking where are the women and children and how can we help them.

Finlesswonder · 04/05/2024 11:56

CoalHouseDoor · 04/05/2024 11:52

Many arrive, as I’m sure you’re aware, without documentation and sometimes even fingerprints.

Any concern is rooted in a perfectly understandable concern at an uncontrolled arrival of large numbers of men (from a culture I know very well) with very different ideas about the place and role of women in society.

Knee-jerk dismissal of such worries as ‘racism’ does nothing to help anyone. We need adult conversations about why it’s happening, how to tackle the shocking human traffic chains, the smugglers who are profiting like kings and the clash of cultures.

Finland did some depressing work around ten years ago showing that there was no appetite for assimilation from
illegal immigrants or asylum seekers or however you wish to frame it.

It’s a ticking time bomb. We should be asking where are the women and children and how can we help them.

I couldn't agree with you more.

But when England or France do it its called racism, when Ireland or Sweden do it its called "having an open conversation".

mollyfolk · 05/05/2024 00:14

CoalHouseDoor · 04/05/2024 11:52

Many arrive, as I’m sure you’re aware, without documentation and sometimes even fingerprints.

Any concern is rooted in a perfectly understandable concern at an uncontrolled arrival of large numbers of men (from a culture I know very well) with very different ideas about the place and role of women in society.

Knee-jerk dismissal of such worries as ‘racism’ does nothing to help anyone. We need adult conversations about why it’s happening, how to tackle the shocking human traffic chains, the smugglers who are profiting like kings and the clash of cultures.

Finland did some depressing work around ten years ago showing that there was no appetite for assimilation from
illegal immigrants or asylum seekers or however you wish to frame it.

It’s a ticking time bomb. We should be asking where are the women and children and how can we help them.

They arrive without fingerprints? If you claim asylum on arrival to Ireland you are fingerprinted. Yes some do arrive without papers or on false documentation… there are hardly any legal routes to asylum then people seek illegal means to arrive here (or anywhere) and then claim asylum and their claim is accessed.

We could help women & children by opening up more legal routes to claim asylum in Europe.

Asylum seekers are not illegal - they claim asylum on entering which is legal. illegal immigrants live under the radar - they are undocumented and it would be tricky to do a study on them - but I’m here for learning if you have a link.

I do think these ideas are rooted in racism. But I agree that people who believe complete myths about asylum seekers aren’t necessarily racist. The words used by some - “unvetted, military aged males”. “Influx” “invasion” are really scary and people believe them. We should have a sensible fact-based discussion about asylum seekers, immigration and illegal immigration. How they differ and what happens when people arrive. I’m not saying that the system is perfect - it is absolutely not but the amount of misinformation in the media and in comments section is eye opening.

Lots of people believing that people get “own door” accommodation on arrival in Ireland and free cars! Like complete nonsense.

CoalHouseDoor · 05/05/2024 09:18

mollyfolk · 05/05/2024 00:14

They arrive without fingerprints? If you claim asylum on arrival to Ireland you are fingerprinted. Yes some do arrive without papers or on false documentation… there are hardly any legal routes to asylum then people seek illegal means to arrive here (or anywhere) and then claim asylum and their claim is accessed.

We could help women & children by opening up more legal routes to claim asylum in Europe.

Asylum seekers are not illegal - they claim asylum on entering which is legal. illegal immigrants live under the radar - they are undocumented and it would be tricky to do a study on them - but I’m here for learning if you have a link.

I do think these ideas are rooted in racism. But I agree that people who believe complete myths about asylum seekers aren’t necessarily racist. The words used by some - “unvetted, military aged males”. “Influx” “invasion” are really scary and people believe them. We should have a sensible fact-based discussion about asylum seekers, immigration and illegal immigration. How they differ and what happens when people arrive. I’m not saying that the system is perfect - it is absolutely not but the amount of misinformation in the media and in comments section is eye opening.

Lots of people believing that people get “own door” accommodation on arrival in Ireland and free cars! Like complete nonsense.

I don’t want to derail the thread but I do think these wider discussions need to be had because I refute the idea that objection to mass illegal immigration is ‘rooted in racism,’ either in the UK or ROI.

I’ve lived in many countries in my life and in my experience these two countries are exceptionally liberal, open-hearted and generally very welcoming to strangers, especially on an individual level.

We would not, for example, in 2024, set about a woman with sticks for not dressing in a conformist manner.

The issue, I believe, is the mass importation of young men whose beliefs differ so radically to our liberal, pluralist and equal society. (Equality enshrined in law, at least.)

One of the many reasons I have chosen to live here is that I can walk down the street without fear of physical attack on religious grounds.

I feel desperately worried for women, like the one I quoted initially, who was attacked as a racist for expressing fear of walking past catcalling sexually aggressive groups of strange men in a village she’d lived safely all her life.

It’s the same across Europe and pretending the problem is the so-called ‘racism’ of indigenous women, will not end well.

The Finnish study quoted a policewoman who’d worked with male economic migrants from a variety of countries in a language capacity who reported that the group with which she’d worked for a year still firmly believed Finnish women were easy and good for one thing only and they would only consider marrying women of their own background.

Leaving aside whether that constitutes ‘racism,’ these deeply held beliefs arrive daily on our shores and go unchecked and unchallenged.

I entirely understand that we all have deep rooted cultural beliefs and that moving around the world, for whatever reason, we bring them with us. I don’t see assimilation happening in this case. I’d love to be proved wrong on this because I love the welcoming and humorous nature of these two countries and it would be a tragedy if were spoiled.

There are countries where these young men would be at home and where their cultural
norms are shared. Not to mention extensive resources currently being deployed to attract tourism. Plenty of jobs available. Pressure could be brought to bear to give them a start in a place where the culture clash would be less problematic.

Finlesswonder · 05/05/2024 09:21

The bottom line is we don't owe anyone anything, hence the rise of the far right across Europe. I think the idea now is people don't really care whether accusations of racism are flung around, or whether it's even actually racist. These are our countries, and we don't have to do anything we don't want in terms of letting people in

CoalHouseDoor · 05/05/2024 09:23

Finlesswonder · 04/05/2024 11:56

I couldn't agree with you more.

But when England or France do it its called racism, when Ireland or Sweden do it its called "having an open conversation".

I know. But we still need to have them, as gently but insistently as possible. And actually, in Sweden it’s only recently they’ve started having a conversation.

EasternStandard · 05/05/2024 09:24

CoalHouseDoor · 05/05/2024 09:23

I know. But we still need to have them, as gently but insistently as possible. And actually, in Sweden it’s only recently they’ve started having a conversation.

I think the EU will see the shift before we will, going by the June predictions.

What that means for the U.K. I guess we’ll find out

mollyfolk · 05/05/2024 09:44

CoalHouseDoor · 05/05/2024 09:18

I don’t want to derail the thread but I do think these wider discussions need to be had because I refute the idea that objection to mass illegal immigration is ‘rooted in racism,’ either in the UK or ROI.

I’ve lived in many countries in my life and in my experience these two countries are exceptionally liberal, open-hearted and generally very welcoming to strangers, especially on an individual level.

We would not, for example, in 2024, set about a woman with sticks for not dressing in a conformist manner.

The issue, I believe, is the mass importation of young men whose beliefs differ so radically to our liberal, pluralist and equal society. (Equality enshrined in law, at least.)

One of the many reasons I have chosen to live here is that I can walk down the street without fear of physical attack on religious grounds.

I feel desperately worried for women, like the one I quoted initially, who was attacked as a racist for expressing fear of walking past catcalling sexually aggressive groups of strange men in a village she’d lived safely all her life.

It’s the same across Europe and pretending the problem is the so-called ‘racism’ of indigenous women, will not end well.

The Finnish study quoted a policewoman who’d worked with male economic migrants from a variety of countries in a language capacity who reported that the group with which she’d worked for a year still firmly believed Finnish women were easy and good for one thing only and they would only consider marrying women of their own background.

Leaving aside whether that constitutes ‘racism,’ these deeply held beliefs arrive daily on our shores and go unchecked and unchallenged.

I entirely understand that we all have deep rooted cultural beliefs and that moving around the world, for whatever reason, we bring them with us. I don’t see assimilation happening in this case. I’d love to be proved wrong on this because I love the welcoming and humorous nature of these two countries and it would be a tragedy if were spoiled.

There are countries where these young men would be at home and where their cultural
norms are shared. Not to mention extensive resources currently being deployed to attract tourism. Plenty of jobs available. Pressure could be brought to bear to give them a start in a place where the culture clash would be less problematic.

male economic migrants from a variety of countries

So are all men from “a variety of other counties “ bad in comparison to men from the UK and Ireland ? Or is it just the Muslim men you are worried about?

what about legal immigration- do you think all the healthcare staff should return to “a country where their cultural norms are shared”

EasternStandard · 05/05/2024 09:53

The flow of people tends to go towards the EU, UK and US. It would also go to Aus but they are hardline.

The EU has June elections, the US we’ll see what happens and that leaves the U.K.

Whoever is the most attractive to trafficking networks is the most marketed, and the financial backing is huge. It looks like it could be us after the GE, I cannot see any way someone can eradicate networks, especially if they view them as ‘people smugglers’ they can ‘smash’

We’re not up against men with sticks on beaches, they are three layers down from the untouchable financed networks.

CoalHouseDoor · 05/05/2024 10:01

mollyfolk · 05/05/2024 09:44

male economic migrants from a variety of countries

So are all men from “a variety of other counties “ bad in comparison to men from the UK and Ireland ? Or is it just the Muslim men you are worried about?

what about legal immigration- do you think all the healthcare staff should return to “a country where their cultural norms are shared”

Good point. To clarify, I’m especially
concerned about men from a Muslim
culture who have specific attitudes towards women. And ‘bad’ (your word) is a perspective I hold on the grounds of being a woman who revels and has thrived in an equal culture. I do not want to be exposed to it and the current way means I, and many others are. And we must have a voice to say this makes us afraid.

And of course you are right that UK and Irish men are also capable of criminal sexism. I would argue though that those attitudes have changed seismically over the recent past and that society influences toxic masculinity for the better (even though we need to legislate this October, a whole other discussion).

Legal immigration, in my experience, implies a willingness to accept and respect the cultural norms of that country. Often legal
immigrants are accompanied at some point by spouses and/or children, which has a settling effect.

Legal immigration can sadly be as exploitative; again, another discussion. As is the moral implications of inviting those educated and trained by poorer countries to move to Europe and work here. But this thread is about illegal immigration.

Many discussions to be had. But not if we assume racism to be the driver and shut down debate. Because we know how that ends. And the rise of the far right across Europe is no coincidence.