SIL and BILs parenting style - is this okay or AIBU?

[shootingstar001]

Me and DH recently went on a short break with his sister and her husband.They have 2 children 2 and 5.

we live really far away so obviously we don’t see them super regularly but when we are all together we’ll do something with them for longer stretch of quality time like a trip or mini break.

we’ve both noticed before that they don’t seem to ever discipline their kids or say no - this is obviously a conscious choice they’ve made together. I’m aware that a ‘gentle parenting’ style is a bit more of modern choice but to me the complete lack of boundaries was really visible and really affected us and everyone around us. We both found it quite shocking especially in public settings like going for dinner etc. They seemed a bit oblivious but me and DH felt really tense by the end as there was always an ‘incident’ or two everyday. It did sort of ruin the end of the holiday.

Few of things that happened (sorry some of these are bit gross)

• Allowed their 2 yr old DS to wee in the shared villa pool
• Allowed 2 year old to poo in a public spaces (not in toilet)- pub garden/public park etc
• Allowed both kids to play a game throwing large rocks and pebbles at people walking by
• Their 2 year old is also going through a phase of punching - at one point wandering down some narrow packed touristy streets just windmilling around punching people walking by. BIL just stood passively and watched. The boy then had a massive crying tantrum when another tourist told him to stop. BIL comforted him about the ‘nasty man’
• Allowing 5 year DD to scream continuously in high pitched tone in restaurants (happened several times) - going through a phase of thinking it’s funny - both didn’t tell her to stop. DH did gently tell her a few times that we weren’t enjoying in perhaps other eating dinner might not like it either. Both parents said nothing.
• A lot of tantrums/fake crying - no intervention/words.

We never had kids so I’m really aware that I might not ‘get it’ - because of this we both feel that questioning someone parenting style might be a bit of a d**k move but it does really marr the time we spend with them.

Do we say something or just ride it out until the kids are a bit older and it’s everything is just a bit easier?

Really don’t want to damage my relationship with my SIL and BIL but also starting to dread family time with them. Advice please!

Good God - my ds would never ever have done any of this shite. On the off chance he had, I wouldn’t have inflicted him on anyone else.
This has nothing to do with the @shootingstar001 not having children, anyone could see these children are awful.

Wowsers. That is pretty lousy parenting. (IMO of course).

Like @TMess I had a relative (aunt) who parented very similarly. She was very into the idea that putting any boundaries on children would result in trauma to their souls. her 3 Dcs did not turn out to be happy well-adjusted adults because they were simply never taught how to be well-adjusted kids or that any of the normal social conventions applied to them.

Thats not gentle parenting (which is generally authoritative parenting if people can be assed to actually make an effort to read about it, my own efforts are patchy so I’m not flying the flag for gentle parenting.

This is permissive parenting and basically neglect.

Thats frankly awful, truly shite parenting.

That is not gentle parenting. That is just ignoring your children. Gentle parenting is hard work.

to me, there are two crucial elements of gentle parenting. We explain why we are setting limits. we don’t issue arbitrary punishments.

if a child is throwing rocks at people. You explain why throwing rocks is wrong, even to a 2yo. With repetition they will learn. Then you remove them from the situation. They might not get to run around if they can’t be trusted. What you don’t do is take away something unrelated like dessert, because there is no logic to that consequence and it is too removed from the incident for the child to really make the connection and learn.

That is zero parenting not gentle parenting

They sound awful, I would not go away with them again.

@adviceaunt you sound utterly ghastly and are chatting shite

Kids like this end up isolated. No one wants play dates with them, and other kids avoid them.

This sounds unbelievable. I've never witnessed anything as passive as this. I live in an area where most people probably gentle parent to some extent I.e. they try not to shout and dont use lots/any punishments. They would all at least attempt to stop these these behaviours, with the exception of your final point where they might also ignore tantrums. Throwing rocks, pushing people, peeing in a pool from the side, would all be met with a firm 'stop that'.

I would definitely say something then go very lc. Trust me you will just be the first of many who will do so. I will never understand why people allow and encourage their child to be feral then are shocked when no one wants to be around them.

@adviceaunt of course we are going off what OP has said. What possible other thing do reasonable people do? Rewrite everything and come up with a completely different narrative? What would be the bloody point of MN.

My Dh is abusive. He hit me
@adviceaunt no he isn't. I doubt he hit you. He was no doubt cross because you did something crap and you've embellished.

Yeah. That's not how MN works Pet.

That's exactly what I thought lol

There's laidback patenting, there's gentle parenting but this is just far too hands off.

The hitting people on the street is shocking! How could the parents think that's OK?

I wonder if telling off leads to inevitable tantrums and they don't want to deal with that in public or around you as they're embarrassed.

@adviceaunt

I stand by all my comments. Without context you can't call SIL a bad parent.

Yet you happily call the OP serval nasty things. 🙄

A 2 year old is still a baby and can't be disciplined, but at 5 yes they can be told not to do something and the reasons why and they should be able to understand.

I know someone who parents in a similar way to what's been described. I would suggest don't say anything as it won't go well and won't be taken as intended, but do limit your interactions with them and avoid any further holidays.

This!
I have 6 kids, 11 grandchildren and im a foster carer and I wouldnt tolerate that from any of them. Its appalling and in some cases disgusting behaviour. They arent parenting those children, they need to get on a parenting course asap. Id have told them and I wouldnt go away with them again with those little monsters. Who encourages kids to wee in a pool, I know it happens but you dont bloody promote it and as for pooing outside, seriously that is vile and probably illegal. Hitting passers by? Screaming? No, wouldnt have any of it. Are they completely mental or just shit parents?.....But thats just me.

They are shit parents. The kids behaviour will get worse as they get older, they will have few or no friends, will be excluded from parties and will do badly at school because they've never had boundaries and rules set for them.
Tell them (gently) how you feel for the sake of the children.

A 2 yr old can be told no. And not openly encouraged to behave like that. He/she will just copy its older sibling and be similarly appallingly behaved if not.

They sound absolutely ghastly! They are not doing their kids any favours

@Redherringgull OK, I understand what you mean now. And I totally agree that of course it happens, and mostly we're none the wiser!

I think maybe it's the 'let' that makes the difference? I totally get that a small child might wee while they're playing in the pool and they're unlikely to warn you first - there really isn't much that parent can do about that. But I definitely think if someone is in the pool with their child and the child says 'I need a wee' then the parent should say 'OK, let's get you to the toilet' if possible, rather than saying 'Oh, just do it here, nobody will know'.

Wow. That's... Alot.

I remember taking my son on holiday at 2.5, he was potty trained but it was a long drive. Right after we'd stopped, he announced he needed the loo again. We drove to the nearest stop and thankfully he'd held it but said "it's coming NOW" so we got the potty out the boot and he sat on, hidden by the car and us. He then happily announced "now my poo is coming" 🤦 We were mortified.

The thought of just standing by letting him wee in a pool or shitting in a bush is just... Ugh. So grim.

This isn't 'gentle parenting' regardless of what they call it themselves.

This is not parenting or shit parenting.

Gentle parenting:

'Shouting/screaming in here isn't an option. You can stay here and be quiet, OR we can go outside if you need to carry on being loud, which would you like to do?'

And then if child tries to pick secret option C 'continue to scream here', child is stuffed under an arm and swiftly removed.

Vs Traditional parenting:

'Be quiet'
You're still loud, so out we go.

Shit parenting:

'Haha isn't little Jimmy loud, how fantastic. Lets ignore him for a bit. Oh look at all the judgy people staring. '" Shush Jimmy, Shhh..." Oh he WON'T shush, oh well'.

I couldn't be around behaviour like this I'd be mortified. In future when asked if you want to join them on a day out/holiday, I'd decline and say maybe once the kids are older. If pushed by the parents as to why you could say you don't enjoy the 'terrible two' age, it's too loud for you. I don't think I'd be brave enough to criticise their parenting!

Goats have developed hoof off parenting to the extreme, but even they wouldn't let their kids get away with this behaviour. The herd has boundaries of behaviour which are very much age appropriate, as do we as a society, because it wouldn't work if it didn't.
By not doing your job as a parent to set these boundaries you are letting your children down. They don't know unless they are taught.

I'd say that whether they are 'still a baby' depends on whether they just turned two a couple of weeks ago or are on the cusp of being three, really. But either way, while I agree you can't really 'discipline' a two-year-old as such, you can certainly give them a stern 'no' and stop them from doing whatever they're doing.

For example, if a two-year-old is running around punching people (as in the OP's post) you can absolutely tell them not to do it and pick them up/strap them into their buggy/take them away from other people. It's not 'discipline' as in punishment, but it is still teaching them what is and isn't OK and helping them understand that certain behaviour has consequences. And even if it wasn't teaching them anything, it's the right thing to do for the sake of everyone else around you.