SIL and BILs parenting style - is this okay or AIBU?

[shootingstar001]

Me and DH recently went on a short break with his sister and her husband.They have 2 children 2 and 5.

we live really far away so obviously we don’t see them super regularly but when we are all together we’ll do something with them for longer stretch of quality time like a trip or mini break.

we’ve both noticed before that they don’t seem to ever discipline their kids or say no - this is obviously a conscious choice they’ve made together. I’m aware that a ‘gentle parenting’ style is a bit more of modern choice but to me the complete lack of boundaries was really visible and really affected us and everyone around us. We both found it quite shocking especially in public settings like going for dinner etc. They seemed a bit oblivious but me and DH felt really tense by the end as there was always an ‘incident’ or two everyday. It did sort of ruin the end of the holiday.

Few of things that happened (sorry some of these are bit gross)

• Allowed their 2 yr old DS to wee in the shared villa pool
• Allowed 2 year old to poo in a public spaces (not in toilet)- pub garden/public park etc
• Allowed both kids to play a game throwing large rocks and pebbles at people walking by
• Their 2 year old is also going through a phase of punching - at one point wandering down some narrow packed touristy streets just windmilling around punching people walking by. BIL just stood passively and watched. The boy then had a massive crying tantrum when another tourist told him to stop. BIL comforted him about the ‘nasty man’
• Allowing 5 year DD to scream continuously in high pitched tone in restaurants (happened several times) - going through a phase of thinking it’s funny - both didn’t tell her to stop. DH did gently tell her a few times that we weren’t enjoying in perhaps other eating dinner might not like it either. Both parents said nothing.
• A lot of tantrums/fake crying - no intervention/words.

We never had kids so I’m really aware that I might not ‘get it’ - because of this we both feel that questioning someone parenting style might be a bit of a d**k move but it does really marr the time we spend with them.

Do we say something or just ride it out until the kids are a bit older and it’s everything is just a bit easier?

Really don’t want to damage my relationship with my SIL and BIL but also starting to dread family time with them. Advice please!

Yea , must be the ops SIL .

@shootingstar001 they allow their children to piss in a pool and throw stones at people, they aren't great people. Their children will struggle at school and eventually met older children who will thump them if they carry on as they are. Permissive parenting doesn't include allowing harm to others.

You originally asked what to do and I'm afraid you already know the answer, don't go on holiday with them again! At least not in the same way. People change overtime and how you meet up has to adapt too. Its pretty dramatic in this case because the kids have become such brats and dominating the holiday when they probably didn't so much last year, but you have to keep rethinking and adjusting so it suits all. We go away with family but it has evolved much over the years as the kids came along, dominated and competed for our attention and now are teens and have disappeared into their electronics.
A week is a long time with someone elses kids. Holidays with kids that age are all about them, so take a pass for a year or two, or do something very different.
Consider a long weekend in the UK. Perhaps a kid friendly attraction like legoland where you get to indulge your inner kids.
You'll need to ensure space apart, so if it must be a week abroad, separate appartments in a resort with kids entertainment would work. Put in ground work so they know you won't spend all day every day together. The 2 of you do something boring or impractical with kids, and meet them by the pool later.
If you want to stay in self-catering together, the key is adding other people to spread the load, such as DH's parents or other siblings.

With some thought, new ideas and perhaps diplomatically saying its you not them, you'll hopefully find a way to keep a good relationship with them again through the difficult years. And hopefully their kids will learn better behaviour.
Good luck!

You must be one of those gentle parents we've heard so much about.

Avoid. Children sound feral to me. Parents don’t seem to want to discipline them so any interactions will be hard work. Most likely lots of other days out and holidays will be ruined so swerve them

My apologies I did misread the ages..

not the SIL although I'd be furious if I was that my SIL posting a biased thread for people to judge me on.

I stand by all my comments. Without context you can't call SIL a bad parent.

All these things are very obviously unacceptable behaviour depending on the circumstance.

All those who don't believe children and adults don't wee in a pool are deluded ... it's wrong... but it happens

Poor kids. No boundaries. Not their fault. YANBU.

No excuse for the parents - it's their behaviour that is the issue - but even at the higher end of 2yo, lots of children aren't yet toilet trained (this is what pull ups are for though!!)

I cannot believe you watched a kid piss into the pool you were presumably using as well, and said nothing?

The context is the SIL and BIL failed to parent their kids on multiple occasions, including letting them throw stones at people. That is bad parenting.

The OP doesn't need to have kids to witness what is right in front of her. She saw the throwing stones etc. Being childfree doesn't equal being an idiot.

That's not gentle parenting, it's a complete lack of parenting. You're right to be horrified!

That is appalling parenting- well basically it’s an absence of parenting. There’s no way I’d go on holiday with them again and I’d expect DH to discuss it with his DSis.

Im very lucky that our parenting style is very similar to that of DB and DBIL. We’ve always been able to explain something/give a warning to ours, and DB/DBIL DSILs make it clear to their DC that it applies to them as well and vice versa. Holidays where this isn’t the case must be a nightmare.

This isn't parenting. A 2 year old however isn't supposed to be toilet trained yet, so I guess that part is in the air. The rest is unacceptable.

Maybe I could have written that differently: If a kid (or adult!) does a wee in a pool but doesn't say it out loud and nobody notices, you're not going to care, because you are none the wiser.

If you were in a pool and a little kid says "I've done a wee!" then yes, that's very unpleasant.

It's a little like that thread from the other day about bakery items being in the open air at supermarkets.

Yuck - they should not be allowed to be parents! There is gentle parenting, then there is this - incompetence.

Did you ever say anything to the kids, op? Stop that, no, we don't do that, etc?

Because yes, the parents are obviously idiots, but you as a responsible adult are allowed to encourage good behavior too?

As seen as the parents won't.

I see this time and time again, feckless parents, feckless adults who turn a blind eye.

Their 2 year old is also going through a phase of punching - at one point wandering down some narrow packed touristy streets just windmilling around punching people walking by. BIL just stood passively and watched. The boy then had a massive crying tantrum when another tourist told him to stop. BIL comforted him about the ‘nasty man’

I don't understand in what context or circumstances you think this could be OK? If your dc "accidentally" punches someone and that person asks them to stop, you don't console the child and call that person nasty. You explain to the child that that's what happens when you punch someone and tell them to be more careful. I thought gentle parenting was all about natural consequences?

Not having children does not mean you have no idea how children should behave. These parents are lazy arseholes whose can’t be arsed to parent and inflict their progeny on others. Yeah I’m sure the nursery / teachers are going to be delighted to encounter these children.
My kids didn’t randomly scream in public at any age. They didn’t shit anywhere they wanted. Were not allowed to just rampage through life with no thought to others. You are utterly ridiculous.

It doesn't sound like they're parenting at all: horrific. I don't know what you can do really though other than see less of them.

I've never seen children standing at the side of a pool pissing into it. How do all the other parents prevent this.
And screaming in a restaurant you remove the child. It is not all about them, or their parent's beliefs. It's about setting boundaries so they can grow up to function in society.

Also, the not having kids perspective. I have friends without kids who are very sensible with their expectations of kids' behaviour, especially teachers and those with nephews, nieces, lots of friends with kids etc. And some who don't have a bloody clue. I think it completely depends.

They are shit parents. Full stop.
Heaven help the poor teacher at those kids' school/nursery

Yes I wondered all of this. ^^ The OP sounds a bit black and white and doesn't ring true as an interpretation of those events to me.

It is difficult but I would say there are 2 options I would take - the first would be avoiding family time by being busy and if need be, shorten holidays with limited interactions. The second would be to come clean - acknowledge to them their parenting style is their decision but that the situations that are presenting themselves makes you uncomfortable so you would like to change the dynamic to shorter times in private where children are comfortable and less public outings/holidays.

Not having children doesn’t mean you have no sense of what’s normal and socially acceptable behavior. 🙄

OP, unfortunately I have a relative who “parents” or doesn’t parent in much the same way. I never spent any extended time with her because before I had my own dc it was just embarrassing and awkward, and once I had them, my dc were baffled as to why relative so and so was, for example, standing on a restaurant table screaming, with zero input from their parents and eventually asked not to go out with them because they would be unkind/physically hurtful to my dc and nobody would say anything except me which obviously didn’t do much good! It’s not likely to get better. What started as completely unmodified toddler behavior is now a bunch of teens and preteens that to put it politely are not on anybody’s guest list.

You can't say anything. It'll just make them angry with you. It won't change anything. I would not spend time with them and their children again. That's a crazy lack of parenting.