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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

SIL and BILs parenting style - is this okay or AIBU?

328 replies

shootingstar001 · 23/04/2024 11:39

Me and DH recently went on a short break with his sister and her husband.They have 2 children 2 and 5.

we live really far away so obviously we don’t see them super regularly but when we are all together we’ll do something with them for longer stretch of quality time like a trip or mini break.

we’ve both noticed before that they don’t seem to ever discipline their kids or say no - this is obviously a conscious choice they’ve made together. I’m aware that a ‘gentle parenting’ style is a bit more of modern choice but to me the complete lack of boundaries was really visible and really affected us and everyone around us. We both found it quite shocking especially in public settings like going for dinner etc. They seemed a bit oblivious but me and DH felt really tense by the end as there was always an ‘incident’ or two everyday. It did sort of ruin the end of the holiday.

Few of things that happened (sorry some of these are bit gross)

  • Allowed their 2 yr old DS to wee in the shared villa pool
  • Allowed 2 year old to poo in a public spaces (not in toilet)- pub garden/public park etc
  • Allowed both kids to play a game throwing large rocks and pebbles at people walking by
  • Their 2 year old is also going through a phase of punching - at one point wandering down some narrow packed touristy streets just windmilling around punching people walking by. BIL just stood passively and watched. The boy then had a massive crying tantrum when another tourist told him to stop. BIL comforted him about the ‘nasty man’
  • Allowing 5 year DD to scream continuously in high pitched tone in restaurants (happened several times) - going through a phase of thinking it’s funny - both didn’t tell her to stop. DH did gently tell her a few times that we weren’t enjoying in perhaps other eating dinner might not like it either. Both parents said nothing.
  • A lot of tantrums/fake crying - no intervention/words.

We never had kids so I’m really aware that I might not ‘get it’ - because of this we both feel that questioning someone parenting style might be a bit of a d**k move but it does really marr the time we spend with them.

Do we say something or just ride it out until the kids are a bit older and it’s everything is just a bit easier?

Really don’t want to damage my relationship with my SIL and BIL but also starting to dread family time with them. Advice please!

OP posts:
ClareBlue · 23/04/2024 22:59

Justgorgeous · 23/04/2024 19:38

And this is why kids turn up to school with no boundaries, no structure, no routine, no manners and no respect. And then it will be the school’s problem, and other kids will suffer.

And look for medical reasons for the behaviour they installed, blame everyone about lack of services and supports for their child with behavioural problems and not once reflecting that it might be their issue. Yes, seen in numerous times at different levels.

DBD1975 · 23/04/2024 23:00

OMG I can't believe anyone would find the behaviour of those children acceptable, in my view it so isn't. I could not bear to be around those situations, too worried people might think the kids were mine. The toileting situation on both occasions is vile and as for throwing rocks at strangers, unbelievable. Fair play to you no way could I have gone the distance on that trip, I would have found an excuse to go home early. I would give it at least another 10 to 12 years before you see them again!

Blogswife · 23/04/2024 23:00

These kids are borderline feral ! I can’t think why you’d want to share your holidays with then or their inconsiderate parents .

PrincessOlga · 23/04/2024 23:43

Unfortunately, there are such parents who are simply dreadful at parenting. They are the ones that all the normal people raise their eyebrows about and exchange glances over. You are completely correct, but there is probably nothing you can do at all. It is what it is. You will probably just need to try to limit the time you spend with them - maybe they will get the hint. In any case, confrontation will get you nowhere, just a quiet word or a few balanced phrases if they ask why.

thebestinterest · 24/04/2024 00:00

Blimey, they all sound like a nightmare. I’ve a two yr old and I very much practice gentle parenting, in that I respect my child and do not use threats to get her to cooperate. Gentle parenting isn’t what they’re doing… that’s passive parenting. So please don’t confuse the two.

I would never do any of the stuff your bill and sil are doing. Sounds like a tough life.

MsRosley · 24/04/2024 00:18

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 11:51

i wonder how much of this behaviour was more your interpretation of what happened.

weeing in the swimming pool... did you over hear mum and dad say 'its ok jimmy just pee in the pool' or ws it a case of jimmy announcing 'ive just wee'd in the pool' and mum and dad did not tell him off (at 2 years old they are barely potty trainined).

would need more information on poo'ing in a car park... as in did they just drop and squat and shit.. did mum and dad say, just take a dump there lad you'll be ok, or was it a case of 'mummy i've poo'd' and the parents have not told them off?

allowing them to throw stones at people passing, as in here ya go jimy he's a good rock.. see who you can hit or jimmy was throwing stones and mum and did didn't immediately give them a punch?

punching? you said his arms were windmilling... thats a toddler with lots of energy letting off steam probably accidently cathing passing tourists...

kids scream... its not about being allowed to scream.. its what they do. boring aunty and uncle were being all adult and they wanted attention.

fake crying... again boring aunty and uncle wanting mummy and daddy to be all grown up.

while there are 2 sides to every story, im going to guess the fact you do not have children shines through here.... parents normally, but there are ofcourse expecptions allow all of this... but sometimes it happens

Are you being serious? What has interpretation got to do with the fact that these kids are clearly not being given any boundaries? What about other people's needs not to listen to screaming in a restaurant? Or should everyone just check their interpretations?

Combattingthemoaners · 24/04/2024 03:18

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 11:51

i wonder how much of this behaviour was more your interpretation of what happened.

weeing in the swimming pool... did you over hear mum and dad say 'its ok jimmy just pee in the pool' or ws it a case of jimmy announcing 'ive just wee'd in the pool' and mum and dad did not tell him off (at 2 years old they are barely potty trainined).

would need more information on poo'ing in a car park... as in did they just drop and squat and shit.. did mum and dad say, just take a dump there lad you'll be ok, or was it a case of 'mummy i've poo'd' and the parents have not told them off?

allowing them to throw stones at people passing, as in here ya go jimy he's a good rock.. see who you can hit or jimmy was throwing stones and mum and did didn't immediately give them a punch?

punching? you said his arms were windmilling... thats a toddler with lots of energy letting off steam probably accidently cathing passing tourists...

kids scream... its not about being allowed to scream.. its what they do. boring aunty and uncle were being all adult and they wanted attention.

fake crying... again boring aunty and uncle wanting mummy and daddy to be all grown up.

while there are 2 sides to every story, im going to guess the fact you do not have children shines through here.... parents normally, but there are ofcourse expecptions allow all of this... but sometimes it happens

🙃

H34th · 24/04/2024 08:08

As others said this is not what most of us refer to when talking about 'gentle parenting'. I agree with what's been posted by most.

But just remembered one parent I knew personally, who would be very passive and brushing things off in public, because their only correction was shouting loudly and demeaning the child - they felt uncomfortable doing it around others. That would be exactly resulting in a child who knows they are 'safe' to do anything they want when in public.

MrsSunshine2b · 25/04/2024 10:21

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 12:42

all of the comments so far are hilarious... litterally you have taken the OP at her word. there is no scope for another interpretation of events.

if this post had come from an actual parent i would have been a little more forgiving, but this is a non-parents perception and description (remember we were not there so we do not know what actually did happen its only what the OP has seen) and everyone is coming for me because i have not said

this is disgusting behaviour, social services must be contacted immediately and these children should be removed to a safe environment!

give your heads a shake...

What, because she's not a parent she can't be trusted to notice how her own nephews are behaving? Do you think people are automatically imbued with extra IQ points when they push a baby out? Having a baby makes you an expert in THAT baby, it doesn't make you an expert in parenting!

Sharontheodopolodous · 25/04/2024 15:54

SapphireSeptember · 23/04/2024 21:23

He hits his mum? Bloody hell. How did her DDs turn out? I often wonder at parents that treat girls differently to boys and allow the boys to get away with murder. Makes me cross.

Show quote history

There is a big age gap between him and his sisters

But a close one between the girls

They are starting to get resentful of how she treats him and how she treats them

I can see them going nc with her in a few years due to his behaviour (and hers)

PorridgeEater · 27/04/2024 13:29

Obviously don't go on holiday with them. Find other ways to stay in touch.

Devonshirerexx · 27/04/2024 13:30

Try to distract your niece from screaming tell her you know she can sing better than that and laugh, tell her mother and father that in your presence if distraction doesn't work then they need to chastise her , because you don't feel comfortable with their soft approach.
The two year old if he kicks off about the loo intervene and say no I will try him on the loo and take him yourself, they may even appreciate the help, you can be gentle in your approach, they may even learn from you , good luck.
When throwing stones and hitting people intervene , I've done this myself with my sil , the kids respect me even though I tell them off , but they behave in my presence now.

Redsheshed · 27/04/2024 13:37

The kids are in for a shock and their parents are in for a few confrontations once the little "free spirits" start school.
Personally I'd like to think I'd keep Schtum until that happens then you can bask in the glory....
In reality I'd probably say something at the time when they were acting like little d!ckhe@ ds.

Good luck

LemonTurtle · 27/04/2024 13:37

This isn't gentle parenting. Maybe they think that's what they are doing but gentle parenting definitely is supposed to include boundaries and consequences but not harsh punishments. For example throwing rocks at people, a gentle parenting approach would be too get a bucket for them to aim rocks into instead of at people. Redirecting the negative behavior to a more acceptable behavior.

The potty stuff is whatever to me, pretty training is hard and they are definitely not masters at 2. Sometimes them not going in their pants is a win even if it isn't where they should go. However allowing them to hurt people and scream in restaurant is completely unacceptable. Definitely not what gentle parenting is supposed to be about.

Buttonmoon92 · 27/04/2024 13:41

@shootingstar001 the throw rocks and punching is so unbelievably rude and if someone was letting their kids do that and weren't stopping them I know a few people who would do it back!

Also no idea why you think it'll be better when they are older, it'll be far worse!

Dinkydo12 · 27/04/2024 14:53

This is neglectful parenting. How can they expect people to engage with their children with such terrible behaviour.eould defo call I think a social worker needs to be involved. Ii social services.

Mrsgus · 27/04/2024 15:40

That is absolutely shocking allowing their children to pee in a pool and poo in public like that!! Then to punch at passers by and potentially hurt someone by throwing stones at them, that is seriously bad parenting, not gentle parenting. I'm sorry but I wouldn't be going anywhere with them ever again until they grew a pair and started disciplining their feral brats!!

celticprincess · 27/04/2024 15:46

We’ve been on the receiving side of these kind of parents. We were sat in the beach one day whilst a toddler or maybe older was throwing stones at my toddler. And then sand. The parents were just ignoring him. We had to say something in the end.

beanii · 27/04/2024 15:49

YANBU - this is appalling and in my opinion child neglect.

They're feral - not knowing where to pee/poo is awful.

Personally I'd feel the need to speak to other family members or even social services.

How on earth are they going to behave at school? Feel sorry for the other classmates.

beanii · 27/04/2024 15:52

shootingstar001 · 23/04/2024 11:56

Just for some context to address a couple of these comments - neither the pool peeing or the pooing in the pub garden were 'little accidents'

Pool peeing - we were sitting round the pool area having drinks. He walked to the edge of the pool, pulled his pants down and weed into it. Second time he'd done it apparently. SIL laughed.

Pub garden poo - Just wanted to go there. He didn't want to be taken to the toilet so they just let him do what he wanted

Same kid. Pretty sure he's supposed to be potty trained.

Standing on the edge of the pool peeing into it - I'd have been mortified.

That would have been the end of the holiday for me - family or not.

AcrossthePond55 · 27/04/2024 15:56

Devonshirerexx · 27/04/2024 13:30

Try to distract your niece from screaming tell her you know she can sing better than that and laugh, tell her mother and father that in your presence if distraction doesn't work then they need to chastise her , because you don't feel comfortable with their soft approach.
The two year old if he kicks off about the loo intervene and say no I will try him on the loo and take him yourself, they may even appreciate the help, you can be gentle in your approach, they may even learn from you , good luck.
When throwing stones and hitting people intervene , I've done this myself with my sil , the kids respect me even though I tell them off , but they behave in my presence now.

Why on earth should the OP do any of this? It's not her job to take over the parenting that the, you know, actual parents should be doing. Nor is it her job to tell the parents what to do. Yes, their parenting is abysmal, but it's not OP's job to instruct them to change it.

I do agree with letting them know that you don't like their parenting 'style' but only in the context of a quiet conversation in which they are told that 'family outings/holidays' will not be happening because the children's behaviour is unacceptable and upsetting.

Mumofferal3 · 27/04/2024 15:58

NoSnowdrop · 23/04/2024 11:48

This is lazy and barely even parenting. It sounds neglectful and abusive to be honest. Those poor kids.

I agree. Some might say that is a harsh comment but it is up to parents to teach boundaries. Even amongst other animals theparents show displeasure when their pup/cub crosses a boundary.

I personally would distance myself and find humour in the fact that they are creating a bigger problem for themselves.

I know my ILs think I am really strict but also tell me how well thought of my children are. I see that as a positive. I know some won't.

beanii · 27/04/2024 15:58

shootingstar001 · 23/04/2024 14:37

Thanks for everyones feedback, it's good to get a perspective from other people especially parenting. Our feelings at the time felt quite strong that the line from 'letting them express themselves' has been massively crossed into letting them do whatever they want/lack of parenting/lack of awareness for others but it's easy to question yourself with these things when you aren't the parents!

Sorry I've used the term gentle parenting when permissive parenting is the correct one (didn't really know, SIL and BIL haven't vocalised their style as any one particular thing)

@coxesorangepippin We do try and say things and the greater family like MIL, AIL do definitely make a point of firmly telling them off when in a larger group setting.
I have told DD 5 off on several different occasions for the shrieking/wailing thing she things does that she is thinks really hilarious but think I find it the most difficult as I'm not a mother/not SIL's blood relative.

I think some of the comments on this thread about them being abusive/neglectful and should be reported are way too much though - I want to stress that they do provide a loving, affection, safe environment and their children are cared for. Incidents like the rock throwing was super worrying but from their perspective, but in their heads they are approaching it from a place of 'just let them express themselves and figure it out themselves' and they aren't going to let their kids come to harm. I do 100% agree though this is problematic, super flawed and concerning. I do worry about the kids in terms of struggling in the world going forward - you can't just do whatever the hell you like, life doesn't work that way.

As we live far away it's hard to limit contact otherwise we will be missing the kids growing up and there is a lot of pressure on us to make the effort as we were the ones that moved far away. Agree with everyone that the next step is that we won't be doing any more holidays though - the one before that was really stressful also. It's doesn't feel like we are making good memories when we are finding it stressful.

But it isn't loving them - it's neglect pure and simple.

The rock throwing incident - let them find out for themselves - what when they seriously hurt someone? Or damage property?

Even though you can see it's wrong, even you are looking at it with rose coloured glasses.

It's not just the kids - it's society around them having to deal with them potentially hurting them.

AcrossthePond55 · 27/04/2024 16:01

Mumofferal3 · 27/04/2024 15:58

I agree. Some might say that is a harsh comment but it is up to parents to teach boundaries. Even amongst other animals theparents show displeasure when their pup/cub crosses a boundary.

I personally would distance myself and find humour in the fact that they are creating a bigger problem for themselves.

I know my ILs think I am really strict but also tell me how well thought of my children are. I see that as a positive. I know some won't.

Show quote history

Even amongst other animals the parents show displeasure when their pup/cub crosses a boundary.

You bet they do! And haven't we all had moments when we wished we could pick up our young'uns by the scruff of the neck and given them a shake and a growl!

clairelouwho · 27/04/2024 16:07

adviceaunt · 23/04/2024 12:01

you see you have drip fed information.... what was mum supposed to do about little jimmy taking a riddle i the pool under those circumstances with judgy aunty scowling..

pub garden... so parents knew he needed a poo, but ht refused the toilet so they just let him pull down his pants, cop a squat and hey presto? or did he just take the position all kids do when they need a poo... and poop his pants.. like all kids being potty trained do?

what age is this child? if its the 2 year old... i'd say barely potty trained.

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You sound like you'd be the useless parents in this situation.