To be sad neither of my kids are very ambitious

[EmsieJoe]

I have twins, they are 15 and they start their national 5 exams this week. They are both smart kids, predicted A in over half of their subjects like English, Art, Geography and Modern Studies for DD. DS is predicted A in Maths, Practical Woodworking and Design and Manufacturing and Graphic Communication.
DD was originally going to stay on, and do highers, but she's now applied to do an apprenticeship in Childcare and DS has an apprenticeship in Joinery lined up.

I can't help but feeling a little sad that they aren't trying to achieve more. I'm a nurse and DH is a painter and decorator, I really wanted them to use the brains they are blessed with and achieve more but now it seems they will be in relatively low earning jobs.

AIBU to feel sad and like they are wasting their potential?

Maybe they both want hands-on/people-focused jobs, rather than risk spending their lives sitting alone at a computer screen?

Your son could one day run his own joinery business – that takes some brains and ambition.

Talk to them now and explain the pros and cons. They might not realise the limits on earning potential. Make sure they have a clear picture of things before they make a decision. I agree with PP to try and convince them to do A Levels first.

If you have a look on my job Scotland. Look at council vacancies. You’ll see the wage there. Not £11 an hour, roughly £15/16 an hour.. Many Early Years practitioners will go on to do further qualifications, including the BA. Alongside a good salary, the working conditions within are very good, annual leave, sick pay, mat leave etc.

I'd have a chat with them about their long term ambitions and their reasons for their apprenticeships. I'd explain the need to keep and open mindset and to continue learning and studying even when an adult in work. Let them know that you don't have to do the same job forever as you go through life gathering more skills.

I'd also have a very honest chat about money: what their salary is likely to be, how it is/isn't likely to go up over time compared with other jobs. How much living costs are and how much you'd need to save for a deposit and earn for a mortgage. Lastly, I'd tell them my own finances (or the salary range for my role if you don't want to be too specific) and show them actual bills etc. I'd give them as much knowledge as I could.

On the fence with this one!

I would ensure they have a clear idea of saving and investing - if nothing else! Physical jobs are very hard once you get older… saving for a pension is key imo.

Having at least enough to not be constantly stressed about bills and have enough to not have to panic if something breaks, doesn’t mean you have to be motivated by money.

Money issues create stress in life, there’s no point pretending otherwise. Living on minimum wage or not much above it isn’t fun.

I know it’s hard not to, but give them space to decide for themselves. SS started an apprenticeship after Highers, he was doing well and enjoying it but Covid put an end to it. Much to our surprise he then started applying for scholarships, having shown no inclination to go to uni before, is now absolutely thriving and talking of a Masters when he graduates next year!
Both of their jobs have good potential and would be really valuable experience even if they did change their mind later on (I remember the mature students at uni as always being the clever ones with first class honours while the rest of us got pissed up!)

These sorts of opinions really irritate me. Amazing how snobby people will be about those who get their hands dirty and look down upon them - but we need these people .

Childcare apprenticeship - so looking after the future generation and keeping them safe isn’t of value? Do we want unintelligent people looking after our kids for 7+ hours a day? Do we really devalue childcare that much?

Joinery - a decent trades person is like a unicorn. If it was that easy to do then more of us would do it. I’ve never met a poor trades person once they’re established. We keep having to import trades (butchers and tree surgeons are in low supply for example) - we don’t seem to have a need for more philosophy degrees.

Most trades require continual learning and education. A lot of apprentices will then do advanced apprenticeships which is equivalent to a degree. It’s not an easy way out nor for the stupid. It sounds like both you and your DH are hands on types hence your vocations, maybe that’s the same for your kids.

Frankly, I’d rather a trade in this economy as they’re the ones still making money as their jobs often have a purpose (most office jobs are non jobs) and they have more ability to open a business of their own in the future.

If you wanted them to go to uni for a specific career I’d be more empathetic.

Childcare apprenticeship - so looking after the future generation and keeping them safe isn’t of value? Do we want unintelligent people looking after our kids for 7+ hours a day? Do we really devalue childcare that much?

Its so important, but is often not as well paid as it deserves. I wouldn’t want my kids to choose it purely because I don’t want them worrying about money in the future.

My step son is a carpenter and has his own company and earns very well.

Your daughter could run her own business too.

If they have brains they will do well.

Joinery can be relatively low skilled or can be very highly skilled and sought after
I am a (many)degree educated construction professional and I can definitely say that more academic "ambitious" routes definitely don't mean you will earn more (experience)
Construction has many levels within it and I value a good joiner as a skilled craftsman which many clients are willing to pay for - quite often a lot of money.

However a joiner can also be the guy who works for a mass house builder and is a bit shit and gets paid an ok wage with less stress and experience

They are both joiners yet they are not equal careers

Your kids have a plan which is not bad at that age - I also have a 15yo
No plan but is doing ALevels in maths, physics & CS just because he enjoys them.... no ideas pay that
Which is also ok.

*past not pay

They are 15 not 25. It sounds like they want to align their interests with their future careers, which is very wise. Be supportive of their efforts. The apprenticeships should help them build up their skills and confidence.

I do know what you mean -DS seems to have had his ambition less dented by peers and school than our daughters - though DD1 is at uni but by skin of her teeth but looking a high education low paid lots of volunteering sector.

MN always seems to play up trade professions - as if everyone it it is rolling in it - yet half our family is in various trades and while they made a decent living - DH education and career gives us a better income and less stress on him. That following his Dad a builder advice - if you have the brains use them to get a better job with better prospects and not have knacked joints and doing backbreaking work in all weathers.

Having said that I agree with other posters focus on the positives they got apprenticeship - they can get more education and move up in future if they choose. Trying to force them to go a direction they don't want will likely just cause resentment.

Senior Professional in a law firm here. Director / Partner level. Postgraduate qualification.

My "less intelligent" cousin is a builder, left school at 16 and now out earns me considerably.

He also has a property portfolio he rents out to my one house, staff he employs and I'm pretty sure he's a local Mason (wink nudge wink side hussle).

Just saying.

I'd more worried about childcare as a degree option to be honest. But an honest practical trade. As someone who had to wait 10 months for a bloody joiner to make some cupboards, I'd say it's a sensible choice.

I think all you can do is make sure they have fully considered their options. Ask them what careers they predict these choices will make for them - do they know what their max earning potential is, will this suit the other choices they want for their lives (mortgages, kids costs, holidays retirement ages etc). Then ask them to consider the alternatives - if they go to uni will that change what their earning potential would be in those same careers? Would it develop the careers? Eg what about early years teaching instead of childcare or a business degree alongside joinery skills.
There are many ways to be happy and successful, your responsibility is just to ensure they've made informed choices.
Appreciate you want them to do well because you love them but who knows what will lead to a happy life?

Don’t be a ‘pushy’ one OP. It will drive your kids further away. It’s really damaging to be a pushy parent.

No need for any ‘gentle’ talks with them. They would like to do apprenticeships which is very sensible and dare I say, aspirational.

I bet he is very significantly richer than a lot of academic university graduates.

Yeah, but you can work your way up to a strategic/ management role in a Local Authority and earn ok money - with a good pension. Or go into EY research/ academia etc. There are options beyond frontline practice ( which is very poorly paid and limiting)

You'll never be rich but there are proper careers in Early Years which are really interesting and satisfying, which she could develop into. If I had my time over, I would do this.

Possibly, the plumber we know does earn well, but he works crazy long hours and now he’s getting older he’s finding it hard going. He’s told his own kids to not do a trade.

They are both setting themselves up to earn money, gain valuable skills, experience and qualifications and you are disappointed with that?

Professional development doesn't stop at one qualification you achieve when you're 18!

Maybe they're sick of the institutionalised education system they've been in since being toddlers.

You're kids will be way ahead in the employability and earnings stakes than their peers who decide to do another 2-5 years of education in college then university.

Stop being a snob and do some self led careers research in their chosen industries!

yabu
I have a friend who started off in childcare and ended up as a senior manager in midwifery and decent chippies are worth their weight in gold...and that's if he keeps to plain carpentry and doesn't go into something like fitted furniture. I know this thing about wanting the best for your children and I get that but to me it sounds like you aren't valuing the people they are.

So this is the thing...

It's all well and good saying "it's their lives, let them be" etc. but they are children. At this age they absolutely need guidance. I don't know much about potential careers in joinery so can't really comment there. In terms of childcare though, I think your DD is out of her mind.

It's so easy to go into childcare at any age, if that's what she REALLY wants to do, but if she doesn't use this time now to really engage her brain and use it to explore other opportunities now then she may lose out on so much, and inevitably it'll be you she blames for 'letting' her effectively drop out of education.

That's not to say that if she isn't challenged and gets bored, or finds that she can't live on a wage solely from childcare that she can't go back to college or university at a later date and do something else, but my goodness, it is SO much harder.

My family wanted me to be more ambitious and I burnt myself out seeking their approval.

I wish I'd just gone into a trade someone will always need like hair or plastering or something like that, that can always be transferred with me where-ever I go, or I could start my own business and control my own environment.

There's more to life than money. Happiness is also important.

Ah fair enough. I didn’t realise that. I was just thinking of frontline practice.