Don’t want a second limited holiday with friend.

[Borntorun123]

NC for this.

I will start by saying I am lucky enough to have 3-4 budget holidays/ short breaks a year.

My last one was with an old friend who has mobility problems. She can manage most things but walking is very limited.

I willingly carried bags, pushed a wheelchair when necessary ( longer distances than she couldn’t walk in airports, etc), offered her first choice of seating, popped to shops for items, did everything I could to make things as comfortable and easy for her as possible.

She said that she had a good time and I am pleased. On the other hand I found that the holiday was so limited that I felt guilty and frustrated. I felt sorry for her, and very much appreciated my own physical health, but I constantly felt restricted. I run every day and was still able to do that, but whilst out saw places I would have liked to spend time exploring, or nice looking restaurants for a long dinner, etc. So many things to see and do.

Apart from travel by taxi to a few carefully chosen places, we could only go to one place on the beach where sun beds were provided
( charged) , and just one restaurant.

I can’t imagine how frustrated my friend is with being so immobile. I know I am very lucky.

She has now suggested going away together again. We’ve only been home a few weeks and it wouldn’t be until Autumn. She is looking to me to arrange everything as before. It took a lot of research, trying to ascertain what roads and paths are like, exact proximity to attractions, contacting property owners with several questions, etc. and despite my best efforts a few things still didn’t go to plan, which were commented upon.

I don’t want to go away with her again, at least not for the second time in a year. As well as being restricted it cost me significantly more due to taxis ( I rode in the taxi so of course split costs), it was always me popping to the shops for minor purchases, which individually seemed too trivial in cost to split, but actually totted up to a significant sum.

AIBU to tell her no? She couldn’t holiday alone, whereas I plan to do that for my next trip.

Well thats a very odd way of looking at human relationships

Viewing disabled people as holding able bodied people back? I agree, it is- somehow it’s a very popular one on mumsnet. See also-

disabled children in mainstream schools taking up too much time and being disruptive

Wheelchair users taking too long to get on and off busses making people late

disabled people making noise in restaurants when others want quiet

Wheelchair users being ‘entitled’ if they want to use the wheelchair space on the bus when someone doesn’t fancy folding their pram

carers getting free/cheap entrance to attractions not being fair

blue badge holders parking in p&c spaces if no Bb spaces available meaning no parents can possibly go to the shops

etc etc etc…

This is the usual attitude to disabled people from many many posters on mumsnet.

Not relevant examples to this case obviously, but I mention them as illustrations to the point I was making in the post you quoted-

disabled people are an inconvenience or an afterthought… and frequently told that actually our experience isn’t relevant to the discussion so can we just shut up about it.

We are acceptable when we are in a state of over coming, or making up. Always going the extra mile to make sure we aren’t in the way of an able bodied person.

If I have bad eyesight but speak fluent french and my husband has good eyesight but doesn’t who is “disabled “ on our trip to Paris?

Not speaking French is not akin to a disability and it’s silly to imply it is.

Who does her usual care? Is it agency staff? It seems like her usual carer would be the best bet for a holiday companion for her… it seems odd that she would travel without them.

@Theuglynaillady
Would the carers want to / be able to holiday with her?
How much would it be to pay a carer for 24/7 care?
Legally can a carer be 'on-duty' 24/7?
Can a personal carer work abroad? How does that affect insurance, work permits, income-tax, VAT is it classes as a UK service or overseas?

I doubt taking a paid carer will be that easy to get round the paperwork and that's before you consider the cost of paying for both the Op and the carer.

Paid carers travel abroad with people all the time. It is not cheap. Or disabled travel companies provide paid carers at particular resorts.
@Borntorun123 you must have realised that someone who needs this level of care would need a lot of care on holiday? Not being able to turn over in bed without help or get in and out of bed is a severe level of disability and would have carers throughout a normal day.

I have no idea- my spouse is my carer so I’ve never had to deal with employing one. I know people do have carers travel with them- I imagine it’s incredibly expensive.

I just meant that if the friend can’t even turn herself while lying down she must have a high level of need, and therefore have carers who would have at least been able to let the op know what would be needed while they were away.

Seems like the op was a bit naive about what she was taking on- although you would think that the friend would have put her in the picture in advance.

I certainly wouldn’t travel relying on someone who didn’t know what my needs are and wasn’t practiced in providing that care- I don’t know anyone who would, it would be horrendously stressful.

Ok, I will have a final try to clarify, even though the event has already passed.
My friend has PIP high rate care and mobility from a government not known for its generosity in this area. Of course she has some limitations.
I said in my first post that she manages most things, and that is the case.
She doesn’t have regular carers. There are some things she struggles with and I knew about these before we travelled, have sometimes helped her with them in the past, and was prepared to help with them on holiday. I didn’t mention these as they weren’t an issue.
I am not her carer, and have never regarded or described myself as such.
She can get in and out of bed by herself, but there is a lot of difference getting out of a sturdy double bed onto a firm floor than from a flimsy sun lounger onto sand. No one with severe mobility problems wants to fall, so I helped her, as anyone would.

@Borntorun123 so she does not need help to turn over in the sun bed?
And you could have left her sitting in a cafe while you went a long hike?
I understand that many people may not feel confident getting out of a sun lounger. This is the case for many older people with limitations such as arthritis or just stiffness after lying down for a while. My mother was like this. But I would never have thought for a minute that I had to stay with her all the time, rather than spending some time doing my own thing. On holidays I would spend some time with my mum, and the help her to a cafe, get her settled in, and then go off and do things by myself.

I say this as I think part of the issue is your own attitude. You could not ask her for money. You could not leave her and do your own thing. You agreed to go to the one neach and restaurant throughout the holiday your friend wanted to go to.
I really think you need to work on your assertiveness and communication skills. Your friend probably thought you were happy to have a holiday lying on the beach all day as you did not communicate that you wanted anything different.

I really don’t care what you think

No one is being punished for anything, no need for the dramatics.

'I say this as I think part of the issue is your own attitude. You could not ask her for money. You could not leave her and do your own thing. You agreed to go to the one neach and restaurant throughout the holiday your friend wanted to go to.I really think you need to work on your assertiveness and communication skills. Your friend probably thought you were happy to have a holiday lying on the beach all day as you did not communicate that you wanted anything different.'

Absolutely and really sickening to read some of the comments. Now we're 'cranks' for standing up for a disabled person being criticised on here.

The op isn't going away with her again, we know this. She shouldn't ever have agreed in the first place, the 'friend's' limitations we know weren't a surprise.

None of this is the disabled person's fault and I hope anyone reading this who can't walk miles and skip around chatting to locals isn't put off by a holiday abroad. Just choose your travel companions very wisely.

OP mentioned the high level PIP days ago. Referencing stability turning over/getting out of a proper bed versus turning over/getting out of a sun-lounger is a very obvious difference to most people.

The posters who've done nothing but question and speculate, overlaying their own irrelevant experience, have derailed the thread but it's hopefully done now, it's certainly become an echo chamber and pointless for that.

Good for you, OP, you've tried - and been polite in your explanations.

I'd say no. It's a shame she's so limited but I don't want to be in a caring role when on holiday. I'd be honest and say I prefer to be a bit more active. Her now wanting more restricted holidays you organise goes under the "no good deed goes unpunished" heading. Different if she was your spouse or an elderly relative but she needs to find someone who enjoys the same sort of holiday she does.

OP claimed she had to be with her friend and could not leave her alone. It turns out that is not true. Her friend could even have travelled through the airport without her help. Disability assistance would have helped with everything if needed. There are even help points to summon help at bus stops, parking points, and taxi drop off points if you can not walk at all. And disability helpdesk is always very close to the entrance.
People on the thread were going on about how the friend needed to hire a carer and the OP never once said her friend did not need a carer.
Her friends disability sounds about the level of someone elderly who can not walk far and can not get down onto the floor or low sunbeds without help. ;pads of elderly people are like this.

@2rebecca saying no good deed goes unpunished is a vile thing to say. OP knew her friend can not walk far and takes taxis. If you want an active holiday you either go away with someone who is active or tell your friend you will spend time doing your own thing. OP made her choice and is then complaining about it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? OP says the friend did need help with the sunlounger.

And you can’t leave someone in a cafe all day. My mum is disabled, I would be able to leave her for half an hour but not the whole day.

So your suggestion that OP leave her friend in a cafe and go off and do stuff is very disingenuous.

For someone shouting about care for the disabled, you seem to have little practical experience of what care is needed.

You really need to read the thread, your condescending suggestions and remarks have been made a hundred times before and you’ve added nothing useful.

She isn’t complaining about it, she wanted views on whether it’s reasonable to tell her friend she won’t be going on holiday with her again. Which she has now done. So get over it.

@exomoon Why would you not leave your mum for more than half an hour?
My DH is disabled as was my mother. My DH sounds more disabled than OPs friend. I leave my DH alone in a cafe or similar for half a day no problem while I do something active. He is an adult, he does not need babysitting. I would only not leave him alone if he could not get to the toilet alone, so you choose a cafe with a disabled toilet close to the table.
But unlike you I do not treat someone disabled as a child.

@exomoon of course she is complaining. It is always reasonable to say you will not go on holiday with someone again whatever the reason.

Because she would be alone in a cafe and reliant on me to take her out. She would be distressed to be left alone for hours.

I think it's very telling that one sister says she can't holiday again, and the other two haven't suggested taking her on a holiday.

As sad as it might be, I think you need to call time on these holidays with your friend. Time off is so precious, we simply can't spend it doing things we don't really want to do. And this is a situation that sounds like it'll only get worse...

OP has dealt with the situation with minimal drama, her friendship is intact and still posters are putting the boot in and criticising everything she says and does!

The fact that the friend has a disability, doesn't mean she is beyond any criticism - she is the one with specific needs and requirements, yet did nothing to sort them for herself. And then theres the money thing - each of those things is a legitimate reason not to fancy a repeat experience.

@exomoon can you not see her distress is about more than her mobility issues? I have a friend who permanently uses a wheelchair and works. She travels around the country and manages although her mobility is very poor and she needs disabled toilets and a disabled hotel room.
My DH will happily sit in a cafe for a few hours or less and get a taxi back to the hotel.
I hate the characterisation on this thread that anyone with mobility problems is unable to do anything themselves and can never be left alone.

No one has characterised disabled people as unable to do anything themselves.

Every individual is different.

Just because your DH is happy to sit in a cafe alone for hours that doesn’t mean everyone is. Why can’t you accept that my mum would be distressed by it?

Indeed. I have (shock horror) been in my nail place allll alone for over 2 hours. I am perfectly happy sitting in a cafe (or better still a bar) with a book for several hours while my family goes off to do their thing. The only issue is having one too many and then navigating out without knocking any ankles 😀.

It just seems very odd that the friend can live alone without even visiting carers, but can’t entertain herself anywhere on holiday whilst her companion has a bit of time. But then no two disabled people are the same.