Is this ‘hostile unkind and petty’ I don’t think so !

[Justablueone]

We have lived next door to our current neighbour for about 6 years, got on ok. No issues. She’s just come out of a very bad relationship (dv) about 8 months ago and ever since has been an absolute nightmare

At first we probably made the mistake of being too available as felt bad for her so when she asked favours we said ok (dropping to school / pick up occasionally, lift to places )

She has had a job at the same place as dp now for the last 3 months, she keeps asking for the same shifts as expects a lift. We’ve had to say no and she’s extremely pissed off and has come round today and told me I’m hostile, unkind and petty that I’m putting obstacles in her way when dp is going there at the same time and it is unfair to make her life more difficult.

I don’t think that having boundaries is hostile unkind and petty???

You’ve had 8 months of this and it sounds like you’ve done quite enough.

You need to set boundaries her boundaries are all over the place you can’t change that. It is you that had to set these

she is hurting, angry and needs support but that has to be from others not just you.

you have helped, when you can’t (for whatever reason) she should not be lashing out but this is a pattern she will have been used to and is continuing in other relationships ie. with you

I would suggest you say I can do school drop off on name a day or two in the week but only if I do not have other plans. Drop off for work in a similar fashion

you setting these boundaries is helping her you being there constantly isn’t

you have been very kind but she can’t see that at the moment

Reading your first post so no idea if there’s a big drip feed. Carpooling is a common thing, but it’s her entitled attitude i’m guessing?

It’s obviously up to you but it strikes me a little bit wasteful energy wise (petrol and falling out with your neighbour) when your partner is literally going there anyway.
I would have set some boundaries; like we’re happy to give you a lift sometimes but if it’s going to be a regular thing we’d like you contribute to petrol costs - even an token amount. If she said no then say, i would have said sorry those are the conditions.

Doing reciprocal favours where you know you have each others' backs, great.

Becoming the service human to a CF who expects "kindness" but gives nothing in return definitely needs boundaries. They do not recognise or appreciate the costs of what they recieve. They will minimise the impact of what they ask for "you're going there anyway" and the demands tend to creep and escalate and become difficult to politely and diplomatically exctract yourself from. You tend to have to be blunt and remove favours entirely because they have no respect for reasonable boundaries and requests.

It's not a you problem, it's a them problem, and they need to deal with their own logistcal issues like the rest of the world and learn reasonable compromises.

Whenever I’ve had lifts to work it’s always been when I wasn’t driving at the time or learning to drive or didn’t have a car and the other people at my workplace have always offered first and I offered petrol money to one but she always refused! I gave them both gifts after it ended like a nice bottle of wine and chocolates.

Both women (one my DM’s age, one approx 4-5 years older) both told me they loved having my company in the car as we used to chat away and both in the morning I made my way to their houses, one a 2-3 minute walk, the other a 4-5 stop bus ride away. The latter woman gave me lifts in the evening but I also got the train at that job and was for a year. The first woman I sometimes got a lift home sometimes not. The issue with that job is it was a tricky bus journey in the mornings and an 8.15 start and was a contract for a year so it was much easier to get buses (2) home in the evening rather than both in the morning which I’d tried. If I’d ever thought I was taking advantage or being a CF I’d have stopped immediately and made alternative arrangements. I just forgot, a third woman who was a family friend and DM used to tutor her son used to give me a lift to work as we worked in the same big town, again, she offered and I was 17 then.

This woman sounds like a CF though and seems to want to have you as unpaid “help” not only as a driver but also re childcare which is very unreasonable. I get that you’ve helped her which is kind but she does need to get herself organised.

I used to get a lift from a work colleague.
I had to walk about 15 mins to get to their house. They refused petrol money so when it was their birthday I bought them a very nice gift.
When they left I bought them a generous leaving gift and they were very appreciative.
It is extremely rude to expect lifts from others without offering money.
I would also ask her what days she will do school drop off or ask her to do sone other favour.
Its not acceptable fit it all to be one way.

Ah but what if the person expects nothing in return? In all 3 cases I offered money for petrol and was always told “don’t be silly, I’m going this way and it’s no trouble for me, plus I like your company in the car”.

I definitely gave a very nice present like a nice bottle of wine and nice chocolates at the end of each period of lifts.

I did offer to babysit for the family friend and did that a few times free of charge (they always paid me though!) so that was reciprocal. The first woman who gave me lifts I’d offer to help her in the office when she was busy (MD’s PA of a large company) which she accepted. The second woman I offered to help with whatever she needed in the office and I sometimes did anyway as part of my job as I was a float secretary at that company.

I think with all my lifts it worked so well as I was only there a year for the first two companies and it was probably after me being 3-6 months into the second role that we got friendly and she offered me a lift. This was also in the days (early to mid 90s?) where sometimes so she’d said she felt unsafe driving alone, even with car locks on, and preferred company - SE to SW London.

It seems that it's the constant expectation of a lift rather than the odd "Hey, would you mind giving me a lift into work today?" though I may be wrong.

I'd start charging her mileage and petrol for these lifts. If she hasn't had to contribute towards the upkeep of the car then this might be something that would put her off looking for lifts so readily.

Also, not sure of the distance between your home and where your DH works, but if it's a reasonable distance that could be achieved on a bike, could your DH get an e-Bike and start cycling to work? Say it was something his GP suggested to get healthy? Can't argue with that, can she? Can she?!?!?

I understand the OP's point of view.

Now and again would be fine, but every single shift could become a burden and just increases the neighbour's entitlement and reliance on them. And she's a CF not offering to share the fuel costs.

And, maybe the DH is uncomfortable having a lone woman in the car with him.

Having seen this, your DP needs to make sure that if she moves her shift to one he's on, he goes in and changes shift to one she isn't on. It's a chess game to her.

He needs to say to her "Look, Sally Sponger, I'm not going to be giving you lifts into work going forwards. I can see that you've been given shifts from 8-4 and I'm 10-7 so you ask to be moved to the 10-7 shift, purely because I'm your neighbour and you seem to get a lift with me a that stage. I'm not your personal taxi service. If you're on an 8-4 shift, that's your shift. You'll have to make your way to work for that shift If you change shift, you'll still have to make your own way to work for that shift. Do you understand?"

Im all for helping out a friend, but this is entitled CF, just smile and say no, hostile in my own home, I would have shown her the door in a very hostile manner!

Ah, the be kind crew have found the thread, I see.

Funny how all the kindness OP and her DH had shown for six months went out the window and unacknowledged when they said no.

Funny how the neighbour is expecting to reap the benefits of their kindness and offer nothing in return.

Be kind is code for "be my doormat, do my bidding."

Most of the people posting that they would do it, be kind, what difference does it make, what goes around comes around-are likely people who benefit from exploiting the kindness of others and rarely offer it in return so they see nothing wrong with this setup.

How this woman gets to work has nothing to do with OP or her DH. What would this woman do if OP's DH didn't work at the same place? She can do that instead.

This isn't even this woman asking for a favour-she's not asking, she's demanding it as she feels entitled to it. Hence her reaction to being told no. Asking means that you accept the fact that someone may tell you no.

She's not even offering anything in return. No petrol money, no gift of a bottle of wine/chocolate-nothing. Because CF's like her don't. They thrive in relationships where they can freely take from people and never give anything back, and when the person they're taking from puts their foot down-their real colours come out. All of a sudden, you're not the weak person they can take advantage of but an obstacle in the way of the thing they really want.

And it's not a car share. A car share is where all parties involved take turns in driving and sharing the costs. This is a free taxi service for this woman. That's it.

@Underwatersally 's post rings true to me, your CF isn't used to doing for herself and she sees you and your DH as emotional and practical support, her over the top reaction is because she's never thought if she was asking too much, just that she expected it to go on. It's been 8 months, I'm sure it's hard being a single parent but she needs to stand on her own feet. If you're feeling kind maybe tell her emergencies only in future

Does she offer to pay towards petrol?

It does seem a shame that you’ve gone from being normal neighbours to this and then the CF behaviour.

I’d probably want to resolve this actually so she doesn’t make life difficult for your DH at work or as a NDN with both of you. Her language and behaviour when you want to stop this sounds very PA. I also know how petty squabbles can escalate. Definitely get DH’s boss/manager on side so she can’t put some sort of HR claim against him or make out he’s being unfair by not giving her lifts.

Your neighbour has forgotten that the concept of lift sharing is just that - sharing. What's in it for you and DH?

She's all take and you're all give.

It doesn't 'make sense' to go together at all. Some people enjoy company on a journey, some don't. Some accept being called names by their rude neighbour because they have a martyr complex, others would tell her to go to hell.

Nobody should feel under any obligation to offer another person a lift, regardless of whether they are going to the same place or not. The car is not owned or paid for by the other person, it isn't their property so they don't get to decide how it's used. It's easy to start these things by being kind, but they often quickly turn into a sense of entitlement and expectation that the other person will be the chauffeur. Very often people who can't drive (often they have chosen not to learn to drive, in spite of living somewhere where transport is poor) are the worst for expecting 'favours'. Has the job upped-sticks and moved since the neighbour went to work there? No? Then getting there is her problem.

Having to take the neighbour into consideration just adds to the mental load of life.

Definitely get DH’s boss/manager on side so she can’t put some sort of HR claim against him or make out he’s being unfair by not giving her lifts.

Er? Is it in his contract of employment that he gives the neighbour lifts?

I completely understand how you feel. Giving someone a lift take some mental energy. Even if it is just having to text them that you are ready to go. All this reduces flexibility in your family set up and I can see why you do not want to do this long-term.

I agree with the OP, the neighbour seems to be getting too intense and too dependent. She needs to arrange her work shifts so she can pick up and drop off her own children etc.

Step back a bit and stop being so available, she'll be inviting herself to yours for xmas if you don't put in some boundaries.

I can see why you are getting annoyed by this. Fair enough to support somebody through a bad time but relying on you as much as this isn't really on. Once or twice a week to work but every day there and back is a bit full on. She absolutely should be offering to contribute to petrol.

I have been stuck in this situation before. It becomes take and no give. I recall being asked by a parent to take her child to school and every day. The child was never ready and we were always late. Eventually my child was given a detention for being late and I called a halt to it. The mother was apoplectic. Could not understand why I couldn't be "more patient". Fuck right off! I would not want to be stuck with giving somebody regular lifts. I might want to go somewhere else or just have some time to listen to music in my car. In my experience once people see you as their personal servant it escalates and they want more and more.

I'm a lone parent, I know how difficult that can be but you can't spend your life relying on other people! I will only ever ask for help if I have no other option and will always buy a gift of wine or flowers if I do. Similarly, my friends are the same. We all know that we have a fallback between us but nobody takes the piss. She's got to sort herself out because the next thing will be her expecting you to cover holiday childcare for her children. While your husband takes her to and from work. Nope.

She came round and apologised and said she has just been stressed - she said she can pay petrol money going forward and she just really needs support as has no family nearby etc. we’ve said to her that we can’t do the lifts anymore but we are happy to do one day a week where we drop kids off and pick up till the summer holidays - I don’t want to be heartless but she was really rude to me and I’m trying to be nice scaling back the support gradually

The idea of being tied to my neighbour day-in day-out, waiting for them to be ready (or simply having to factor that in in addition), never being alone in my car etc. makes me want to climb out of my skin, so YANBU there.

Ditto having to corral and ferry her children in addition to my own on a daily basis. Absolutely not. It's a tie, and another set of planning and explaining if you need to do something different, are going somewhere on the way home etc. No.

The final straw for me would be the entitled, sulky attitude. That's the point at which I would stop the whole thing dead forever. Who the hell does she think she is?

I have absolutely no problem doing favours when needed on an ad hoc basis but hell would freeze over before I got myself into a regular arrangement like this, particularly with someone like a neighbour who I can't really hide from! And I would not even be doing that for someone so rude and ungrateful.