Would you make a complaint about these paramedics?

[WatermelonWaveclub]

I went to my GP the other day as I kept fainting when coughing. The GP said my HR was sky high. Then I coughed and fainted in front of the GP. Afterwards I couldn't move my legs properly. She phoned the hospital who said I need an ambulance. The GP got someone to get me in a wheelchair and take me to the nurse's room where I was put on a bed in a cubicle.

Anyway a few minutes later the ambulance crew turn up (3 of them). They did an ECG - ok but tachycardic. I said my legs were feeling ok by then. They did a lying and standing BP and checked I could feel both sides of my face, could hold both arms up, checked pupils etc. So they say they need to take me to hospital. They start heading off and so I follow them on foot. They're all walking ahead of me, chatting away, not one seeing if I'm ok. So consequently we get into the car park - I have a coughing fit and next thing I know I'm waking up on the car park floor.

I can't stop thinking about it. Were they at fault? Should they have used a wheelchair or at least someone walked with me? At the hospital they wouldn't even let me go to my scans etc in a wheelchair, I had to be taken in my bed. So if GP and nurse wouldn't let me walk was it right that the paramedics did?

Parts of this you say you don't know as you were so unwell but other bits you seem to recall really clearly. You say you can't remember what was said so I'd it possible you said you could walk?

I'm not sure what putting in a complaint will achieve as your recollection sounds hazy

Perhaps put your efforts in to recovering from what sounds a frightening experience and not dwelling on this? You've no lasting damage to you from your faint in the car park

Because OP recollection seems hazy that's why I suggested asking the GP surgery their opinion on it as witnesses. If she's so sure that's what happened, then the GP will back her up.

I would definitely make a report.

I was walked to an ambulance whilst having a heart attack. They kept telling me I wasn’t having a heart attack and it was pretty obvious I was ☹️

^The voice of reason.
👏🏻👏🏻

Hope you make a full recovery OP.

It's irrelevant really if OP remembers everything or not. Plenty of patients can't safely assess their needs for various reasons.

She was in their care. You don't walk off in front of a patient (especially one at risk of fainting) and let them walk by themselves.

It wasn't so much that they didn't know about my meds or condition or acute illness - I wouldn't necessarily expect them to. It was the way he proudly just went through my meds declaring he had no idea what they were. I was a bit surprised they didn't know there is a whooping cough outbreak currently. But apparently only children get it. My GP couldn't have diagnosed me with it, maybe they were just thinking about it. This was what the assistant? was being taught. I ended up showing them the messages from Public health. He literally dismissed everything I said. Actually, the more I write the more cross I am. I started by just wanting to raise the issue of fainting on the way to the ambulance but the more I think about it the more comes back and I feel angry!

The thing is - is it really quicker and easier to get a patient who most likely will faint into an ambulance on foot or by using the available wheelchair?

The high BP/HR needs to be looked at alongside the entire history including the neurological assessment. Because what was happening to me was beyond just the fainting. But even if that was beyond the scope of the technician. The history that this patient keeps fainting due to coughing fits that happen when she moves, this was observed by the GP as soon as she moved into the surgery she had a coughing fit and fainted. Most likely if she walks to the ambulance she will have a coughing fit and faint. Do we want to have to try and hold her up or should we use the wheelchair (or shall we just let her make her own way with no support atall?) It seems an easy choice to me. I'm trying to understand why they did what they did but so far I'm still in the dark. I can't see any good reason for it.

Not at my DD's school, tbf.

How do they know the brain bleed wasn't from when you fell and banged your head?

Yes, as I did say she should complain 🙄 but seriously you think someone was showing off their lack of knowledge?

It's nothing to do with how I 'felt on my legs'. Ignoring the neurological situation (which I've not gone into), the point is I was fainting. I could feel as strong as anything on my legs - it's not going to stop me fainting.

I don’t know. And I’m not going to assume one way or another. I’ve worked in emergency services and while most people are doing their best there are a few arseholes.

We have a 'navigator' system at the hospital where they advise the best/quickest route for the patient. In my case they sent an ambulance.

Apologies for the jargon. I've tried to avoid it. I'm a HCP (completely different setting to A&E.)

Yes, it was a good response time and just as well considering my situation. I'm sorry to hear about your neighbour.

I do agree with you, it sounds like I'd have put you in the GPs wheelchair.

Coming across as dismissive is never ok. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.

The medications- I guess it depends how it was said. If they're not common ones it's likely we wouldn't have heard of them. I often look them up so I am informed and I'll be honest with the patient that I'm doing that.

If I'm 100% honest, I had no idea there was a whooping cough outbreak! Most vases of whooping cough are dealt with by GPs, not us so it's not something that's announced to us as a matter of course. (Or I missed the bulletin)

Sounds more like he was stating out loud he didn’t know it and OP is getting herself wound up.

How did you get yourself to the GP in the first place? It sounds like even you didn't realise how unwell you were, so it seems understandable that the paramedics also didn't realise the severity. Especially if you "happily" followed them on foot without saying that you needed a chair.

If anything, I would say that the GP/practice manager should have done a better handover if you weren't well enough or aware enough yourself.

@ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat what I'm saying is she can't really remember what happened - her recollection is hazy - she says she can't remember what was said - they could have said 'stay there'

We don't know exactly what has happened and she doesn't either. I'm saying concentrate on recovering

@WatermelonWaveclub I would complain and I would also ask for a conversation with the paramedics to understand their reasoning/thinking at the time.

As a nurse myself, and I speak for our team, when we get a complaint we look back, debrief and learn from it. We always appreciate this as it helps us to do better. We always want to do better.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of questions only they can answer so write everything down while it’s fresh and when you’re ready you can send it to PaLs.

I have also made a complaint before and asked the person in question to be given extra training/support.

To me this sounds like unfortunately you may have had a team with less experience and your health presentation was unusual so they could not draw upon past experiences.

I do wonder where your GP and practice nurse had gone? Why did they also let you walk? They too should have spoke up if still with you. I would not let a patient of mine walk off if I was worried they would collapse again.

Overall I feel there’s lots to learn here for the team involved. Additionally, I feel ultimately you may need support processing everything that has happened to you.

Glad to read you are on the mend

JFC, no wonder the service standards of the NHS are so low. We obviously have the service so many on here deserve. It's not a fucking charity and it needs to be held to high standards. The ambulance crew were absolutely negligent, they either were complete imbeciles or just did not give a shit about their patient. Surely anyone with even a modicum of common sense, let alone basic medical training would not have left someone like Op walk unaided and behind them, to the ambulance.

If we don't complain and demand and expect better standards from our health service then we will be stuck indefinitely with a NHS with standards far, far below that of much of Europe. We pay for the service and it needs to be held accountable for its mistakes just like any other service provider.

Please complain Op, because the outcome of your fall could have been catastrophic and was completely unavoidable. Those medics urgently need some training and a bollocking about their conduct.

Yes definitely complain. This sounds ridiculous. If you hit your head harder then it could have been a lot worse.

GPs here phone the hospital and they make the decision. My condition was life threatening hence the fast response. Luckily I'd sat down before I fainted. And yes, I have to get up but considering I will most likely fall, perhaps don't just walk off and ignore me. The GP had observed everything that happened so not sure they needed to watch me faint to help their differential diagnosis! And they couldn't even get that right as noone was watching when it happened! 😂

They should have wheeled you out on a chair.

You know what I wasn't sure to start with. And I thought some ambulance crew may be able to explain why this happened. But noone has been able to. And most have said I should raise it so that has validated my upset. But it is all coming back as I talk about it. I'm still gradually piecing together things from a really traumatic experience. It's actually helping to get all those vulnerable feelings and anger out. I've only just got worked up about it - I was too unwell before. But it is good to get it all out. It is helping me move on and recover.

How do you know it took them a while to notice? Had they driven off?

I had to call an ambulance for a life threatening condition a few months ago and it also arrived in a few minutes, thankfully.

I wonder if you need to complain or just raise this as an issue so it can be learnt from? It’s horrible for staff to go through a complaint procedure so maybe just sharing it would be better.