Would you make a complaint about these paramedics?

[WatermelonWaveclub]

I went to my GP the other day as I kept fainting when coughing. The GP said my HR was sky high. Then I coughed and fainted in front of the GP. Afterwards I couldn't move my legs properly. She phoned the hospital who said I need an ambulance. The GP got someone to get me in a wheelchair and take me to the nurse's room where I was put on a bed in a cubicle.

Anyway a few minutes later the ambulance crew turn up (3 of them). They did an ECG - ok but tachycardic. I said my legs were feeling ok by then. They did a lying and standing BP and checked I could feel both sides of my face, could hold both arms up, checked pupils etc. So they say they need to take me to hospital. They start heading off and so I follow them on foot. They're all walking ahead of me, chatting away, not one seeing if I'm ok. So consequently we get into the car park - I have a coughing fit and next thing I know I'm waking up on the car park floor.

I can't stop thinking about it. Were they at fault? Should they have used a wheelchair or at least someone walked with me? At the hospital they wouldn't even let me go to my scans etc in a wheelchair, I had to be taken in my bed. So if GP and nurse wouldn't let me walk was it right that the paramedics did?

Sorry you’ve had a bad experience OP.
The more you’ve explained things, the less I feel I understand.
Was the cough an acute illness or is this a chronic condition?
You have fainted on numerous occasions and I wondered how many times roughly and over what period of time?
How were you coping at home?
It must have been difficult to get to the surgery with your coughing and risk of fainting and falling.
When you say your observations were not ok, do you mean just your heart rate and blood pressure, or also your neurological observations?
Did the doctor do any other checks?
You say you had a brain bleed and I just wondered what sort of a bleed and at what point it could have happened since you’ve had severe falls.
Obv, if the doctor at the surgery who examined you wasn’t happy with your neurological observations and your had reported fainting episodes with falls when you were alone and were complaining of a headache, I absolutely think they should have ensured that you had a wheelchair to the ambulance.
Was the doctor or nurse present when the paramedics arrived? It sounds as though they weren’t around at this point to ensure that you were handed over appropriately.
Did you have surgery for the bleed and were you in hospital for long? I’d imagine it might have been tricky to take you to theatre with your cough, depending on what was causing it.
Glad you’re on the mend!

The EMTS should have filed an incident report—in the US such a report is mandatory. The OP was the patient, in vulnerable state. Whether her memory is hazy or clear the fact retains the EMT’s didn’t strap her to a gurney or use the wheelchair which they absolutely should have done.

If OP died or seriously injured herself would you still say "no big deal"? Because that might be the next patient. That's what this is about. Not OP seeking compensation, or wanting their jobs or making their lives miserable.

It was a serious incident and negligence. Not malicious, not on purpose. Not an accident either. She was in their care. She was their responsibility.

I don't think so as they were aware I was behind them and just ignored me which surely they wouldn't have done if they felt I needed a trolley.

My BP and HR were high (particularly high for me but ambulance man not interested in baselines) Sats were a bit low. Resps were high. I had broken out in a cold sweat and had an awful headache and nausea. I had some neurological symptoms. Background was I had whooping cough and was coughing so violently I was vomiting and fainting.

I can't help remembering a time when I had what, in those days, was referred to as a 'slipped disc'. The GP came out to see me at home, and said he would see me in a week's time. By then I was feeling much better, so made an appointment and went to the surgery. Upon walking into his office, the GP said to me 'What on earth are you doing here?' I said, 'You told me you'd see me in a week', to which he responded, 'Yes, I meant I would come and see you at home, not that you should come to me'. The story goes on, but the rest isn't relevant. The point is, that your story immediately made me think, did they actually say, follow us out to the ambulance, or were they actually going to the ambulance, to get you a wheelchair or stretcher, and you just assumed you were meant to follow them?

I wouldn’t complain no. They made an assessment which arguably was wrong. They are human. These guys have a hard enough job. I hope you are feeling better now.

I assume they did a datix. And no I wouldn't have refused the wheelchair.

Well, given what else you’ve said about their attitude and behaviours, I wouldn’t assume they did a datix. You need to contact the Trust patient experience team to give your feedback. Don’t try and go through the hospital PALS team because that is completely separate. Which Trust was it?

I remembering things as I write. It's strange the things your brain remembers. I started off just remembering the way they treated me going to the ambulance but now remembering other things. And yeah, I was having a brain bleed so not really with it. It was just strange the way he was stating he didn't know what my medications were like he was really proud of himself. I don't know how to explain it. It's the kind of thing some people do. Or maybe I was so doolally I'm remembering it wrong!

Not sure I said it took ages for them to notice. I just said that when I woke up I was alone, they'd not noticed at that point but I qualified that by saying I was probably only unconscious for a few seconds so therefore saying it did not take them ages to notice.

I couldn't agree more. All this 'we shouldn't say anything because they work hard' would only be agreed with by an unscrupulous member of staff. Feedback is important and to try and block it is so dangerous.

Maybe. Maybe not. That’s the point of describing the entire incident as OP saw it. If others have had a similar experience and feed that back too then there’s probably a training need whatever his intent.

Yeah for all you know they'd just dealt with an horrific death.

You're ok. Just don't.

Yeah, I'm terrible for getting help for myself. I ended up phoning 111 who booked me a GP appointment within the hour.

Well, they got me to hospital quick but can't say the technician went up in my estimation. Wouldn't shut up chatting and my head was pounding! 😂 Excellent care once I was in hospital.

OP you still haven't answered about whether this was witnessed or not by the GP surgery staff. Why is that?

Why - you should always feed back about substandard healthcare, otherwise standards don't improve. I'm a HCP and we're encouraged to be critical and reflective about our own standards.

I am, thank you!

It's funny because one thought I have is that the ambulance man thought I was putting it on (not sure how you'd reach that conclusion) and then it also seems posters think I was putting it on and the ambulance came far too quickly for a faker. I'm sure they don't mean that but it's how it comes across.

I used to be a nurse, and I know that a healthcare professional needs to be able to compartmentalise. I have worked in Theatre, trying to save the life of a person who had been beaten up so badly they were unrecognisable - a very upsetting and difficult case - but once they went out to recovery, we all had to focus on the next patient, because they deserved our absolute best too.

If a healthcare professional is so badly affected by a death/patient, then they should go straight to their manager and ask to be sent home, so you can take the time you need before coming back to give all your patients your best.

If you are working, every patient deserves a high standard of care - and what happened to @WatermelonWaveclub was not high standard care. A patient who has passed out several times, whenever they stand up and cough, should be escorted to the ambulance. Instead of walking ahead of her and not noticing when she passed out, if they had been walking with her, they could have seen that she was about to pass out, and caught her.

She could have hit her head - and as she said she subsequently went on to be diagnosed with a brain bleed, a head injury could have made this worse.

Would you be happy for your sick relative to pass out in a car park while the three paramedics/ambulance staff charged with their care walked away from them and didn’t even notice they had passed out? Really?

Exactly my feelings too.

Of course they can prevent me falling - by using a wheelchair. The GP dealt with the situation well - no complaints atall.

If this was police I guarantee everyone would be saying to complain.

It's very strange at certain points I could just hear things very securely and other points I think I just felt pain and nausea.

You are correct it is possible I said I could walk.

I don't think it matters what I said. They knew I was likely to faint again so whether I could walk or not is irrelevant.

I am finding it hard not to dwell on it.

Yes, the nurses would have seen them walking off ahead of me. Not sure if there is CCTV in the car park.

It sounds as though they weren't taking you seriously.

It's unusual for anyone to faint from coughing, so what was the outcome of the tests and diagnosis at the hospital?

@Concannon88 & @gestroopd

I hope you are both better now. I've had to walk to the ambulance too, but I wasn't dizzy or unsteady on my feet, severe abdo pain which resulted in major surgery. I think in OP's case there should have been a paramedic each side to support the patient.