Would you make a complaint about these paramedics?

[WatermelonWaveclub]

I went to my GP the other day as I kept fainting when coughing. The GP said my HR was sky high. Then I coughed and fainted in front of the GP. Afterwards I couldn't move my legs properly. She phoned the hospital who said I need an ambulance. The GP got someone to get me in a wheelchair and take me to the nurse's room where I was put on a bed in a cubicle.

Anyway a few minutes later the ambulance crew turn up (3 of them). They did an ECG - ok but tachycardic. I said my legs were feeling ok by then. They did a lying and standing BP and checked I could feel both sides of my face, could hold both arms up, checked pupils etc. So they say they need to take me to hospital. They start heading off and so I follow them on foot. They're all walking ahead of me, chatting away, not one seeing if I'm ok. So consequently we get into the car park - I have a coughing fit and next thing I know I'm waking up on the car park floor.

I can't stop thinking about it. Were they at fault? Should they have used a wheelchair or at least someone walked with me? At the hospital they wouldn't even let me go to my scans etc in a wheelchair, I had to be taken in my bed. So if GP and nurse wouldn't let me walk was it right that the paramedics did?

I think you should feedback your concerns op because it does sound like it could have been handled better. With 3 staff I'd certainly expect 1 to hang back with the patient incase support was needed.

How was your care once they got you up off the floor?

It honestly sounds bizarre to me. They should either have been supporting you, or close enough to support you if you fell (as an absolute minimum) or should have used the chair, as it was available.

Having been carted off a few times in ambulances in Norway (and witnessed the same happening to others) they always brought the trolley to me, supported me onto it, and moved me on it into the ambulance, which seems like a much safer policy. That was without me being at particular risk for collapsing, on occasion. It was absolutely routine.

Yes, I think you should complain, not to get anything out of it, but to stop it happening again.

Your analysis here is at least as much assumption as the OP’s. We have no idea if they wanted her to stay or to follow. And a few seconds is ages if she is in their care. There is a reason ambulances aren’t single crewed, it’s so there is always someone focused on the patient.

OP should make a complaint and tell everything that happened not simply emphasize the bit you find important, so that the ambulance service can assess the extent to which protocols were or weren’t followed at each stage (or whether there is a gap in protocols) and provide feedback, training or discipline as appropriate.

Yes definitely raise it with PALS. It was unsafe & if the trust is aware of these things they can ensure it doesn't happen to anyone else with potentially serious consequences.

There's some outstanding people working in the NHS but there's also a lot of poor care that people don't speak out about.

They where ! I had the same issue and as you say in hospital nobody would even let me pee alone

You’ll need to go to the ambulance services website to find the contact details for their patient experience team. It’s not the same as PALS at hospitals.

Glad to hear you are now on the mend op - what a frightening experience.

i am really shocked at the low standards people seem to have, gobsmacked by the amount of posters writing that ‘obviously’ they didn’t mean for you to follow them! Absolutely nothing obvious about it, I worked in healthcare years ago and it was drummed into us that we needed to explain everything before we did it and again as we were doing it - no room for misunderstandings.

If they didn’t mean for you to follow they should have clearly explained this to you - it should then have been obvious that you were in no state to process this information (due to pain, fainting and, frankly, fear) and one of them should have remained with you while the other got the trolley or wheelchair.

It sounds to me like the crew that attended you need to revisit basic training. You had a distressing experience which was actually made worse by the very people meant to help. I would definitely complain, we need to raise the bar not lower it further.

I think their fault is not keeping an eye on you while you walked.

I cannot believe the number of defenders of the indefensible. Why would we hold health care service professionals to such a low standard that merely requires them not to deliberately harm a patient (oh well, accidents happen) And, yes, wasn't the OP so unreasonable for not doing her own risk assessment and not making her requirements clear. (And let's then throw in a bit about her having an ambulance arrive far too quickly)

@WatermelonWaveclub - I hope you're on the mend

I wasn't!

Of course I didn't! I took a taxi and the taxi driver helped me into the surgery.

So many embarrassing posts on this thread that show a complete lack of knowledge, empathy and reading comprehension.

Of course you should of been transported to the ambulance or at the very minimum had one walking either side of you. There conversation in the ambulance after sounds completely inappropriate too and lacking empathy. Considering you'd had a bleed on the brain and fell and banged your head due to their lack of care, I'd absolutely complain, extra trainings required. You were very lucky the knock to the head didn't exasperate the bleed. I'm happy to read you're on the mend

This is not correct.
To explain……there are three main levels of practice.

1. Emergency Care Assistant (ECA) / Emergency Support Worker - very similar to a hospital based care assistant. Training is different in different trusts but the minimum is 4 weeks driver training and 4 weeks clinical, followed by 3-6 months in practice completing a portfolio of competencies.
2. Technician / Associate Ambulance Practitioner (AAP). Technician grade is an old course and is being phased out. They have usually done a 12 week course, followed by 9 months to a year in practice completing a portfolio. AAPs do a 14 week course plus 4 weeks driver training, followed by 9-12 months in practice completing a portfolio.
3. Paramedic. Nowadays a three year BSc is required to register with the HCPC. You can register as soon as you’re qualified. This is followed by a two year NQP period which is supposed to provide more support and supervision to help the transition from student to autonomous clinician. NQPs are qualified and registered otherwise they couldn’t work as NQPs.

I had a few fainting episodes earlier this year. I had all the same obs completed by paramedics which all looked okay. They asked if my legs were okay and if I wanted to be wheeled to the ambulance. I made the decision to walk, one paramedic linked arms with me, one in front carrying my bag and another behind just incase. When walking I became light headed and they caught me instantly, sat me down and got a wheel chair.
I think they were in the wrong and maybe a bit preoccupied. Like you, I wouldn’t be too happy with the situation. You could always email (not sure who) to make light of the situation but it depends how you want it to be dealt with.

Hope you’re on the mend!

Yes, we've all made mistakes and I expect to be picked up on them. We can't just say 'never mind, let's just let vulnerable people be harmed because this person was probably hardworking' I don't know exactly what the issue was but something went very wrong and I think it is important to deal with it because noone and in particular the paramedic in charge would be happy if this risk assessing was repeated and someone was badly hurt. I actually work in the NHS myself and that attitude is so, so, wrong and not one we can ever let take root in a health service caring for vulnerable patients.

What area are you in OP? I can help you find the contact details if you like.

This is common. My life threatening condition was missed by a 3 man crew on training ie with a paramedic trainer!!! The GP I saw the next morning who immediately called another ambulence to the surgery apparently submitted a complaint.

She should still have been watched! People can often be blase about their condition.

My dad thought he was fine in the middle of having a stroke!

ambulance

@WatermelonWaveclub I reckon the guy had had a bad day, it was 4 in the morning and I don't think he had a clue how aggressive he came off or how vulnerable that might make someone feel, alone, naked (I mean I had the duvet on me but still...) in a room being yelled at (yep he did raise his voice at one point).

Hopefully he did recieve extra training and won't behave like that again, I've never had an experience like it since with WMAS, they are normally incredible, but humans make human mistakes. If we don't feedback on what happens, things cannot be addressed.

I think some people leap to the instant conclusion that a complaint = sue = compensation. It doesn't mean that at all, in my case I just wanted to ensure this didn't happen to someone else and this paramedic didn't fuck up even worse in future.

Not really a thing in the UK unless personal damages.

How on earth can it be their fault?!

Your first line talks about how you keep fainting.

You clearly have an issue and they were with you when it inevitably happened again. They can't instantly prevent these things by being present.

Did you hold the GP responsible when it happened in the office?

Walking is fine, but they walked ahead of her, and she fainted again. They should have walked by her side.

The fainting wasn't their fault.

OP falling on the ground unattended was.

They was wrong and should of used a wheelchair or at very least walked with you but I don't think its serious enough to put in a formal complaint. I would say it was enough to make them realise on their own not to do this again. But this is based on me having a bad experience after putting a complaint in about nhs staff. So I wouldn't advise anyone to complain about nhs staff and less it was incredibly serious as its not worth the backlash.