Me and 13 yr old: The constant, awful battle over screen time

[Bellballbune]

NC for this.

I wrote a long, detailed post and then erased it. There seemed no point in such elaborate detail when the headlines are clear:

• I’m a fairly controlling mum about screen. I think 4/5 hours in the holiday gaming (plus his phone with him most of the day until he must leave it downstairs at 8pm) is fine. Plus, episodes in evening on TV as a family
• He can’t bear being restricted. Wilful, combative, relentless over wanting more - all the time
• Dh who agrees with me but is easier going and enjoys watching sports in evening on TV and likes DS watching with him - so doesn’t care that he’s just come off hours of gaming onto more screen.

i know I need to find a better approach rather than a shrill, stern reproachful way of trying to coax DS off. I know I’m not handling it well. I do try to offer different things - board games, cooking etc - but his interest is minimal. His interest in everything is minimal. He just wants to chill! All the time. It drives me fucking insane.

He does do some sport and he will go to the park with his friends for a bit but that’s it.

I’m worried about the level of screen usage and addiction. I’m worried im failing him as a parent. He used to be so engaged in tons of stuff.

And I actually just hate family life at moment as it revolves around all this and DH and I just end up arguing over my approach and how I’m getting it wrong. It is so boring! And I’m scared DS will just hate me soon enough.

i dream of running away….

Any thoughts?

Thank you all. I like the idea of adding in, not taking away.

For the record, in term time, he does

• Sports training x 3 times a week (one is a double)
• one x sports match a week
• Chess club x 2 a week
• Sometimes the gym
• Music lessons once a week
• Skatepark in nicer weather

He's in top stream at school for those subjects that are streamed.

In the holidays, I have traditionally organised loads. Until this holiday, he would have done a sports camp for several days, plus lots of organised stuff with friends and/or their kids. Trips to London etc.

This holiday, he begged me for downtime and non structured stuff. He's done

• Attended a sports camp x 2 days
• Attended a renowned skate park for an all day event with a friend
• Gone to the park most (unrainy) days to play sport and hang out with friends
• Walked the dog at least 4 times a week
• Had lunch with me every day and dinner with all of us, as every night
• Had three sleepovers

He's not chained to the screen, as you can see. BUT there are a lot of hours in the day in the holidays

For those of you aghast that he doesn't want to do scouts or such - he's of the age where he wants to be 'cool'. This does not fit that profile. He has tried all that stuff over the years, I was a very active parent in that sense. And we have arrived at here.

I would love him to do more of that stuff, but he is who he is. My current mantra, 'Behold, don't mould'.

My only issue is his love of the screen

Totally agree with this - I've one of each. Unfortunately, the eldest is type 2 and my youngest copies him so I'm in the same place as you OP.

It's utterly miserable constantly policing screen time. I have enough battles with policing myself (hence this post).

No answers for you, just solidarity. I hope you can crack it OP.

It sounds fine tbh. I wouldn't get too worked up - it's not like he's some sort of recluse who never comes out of the basement.

My brother has ADHD and uses screens to relax and regulate himself. Not saying your DC is ND, but it may be that he finds screens relaxing rather than stimulating.

Does he do chores around the house? If not, that's what I'd focus on - making sure he's pulling his weight as a member of the household.

We don’t have screen limits in the daytime at home but I do force ds out the house for at least half the day most days. I sign him up to football training, swimming, mountain biking for 3-4 days a week in the holidays and dh or I take him out for hikes, cycles or day trips 1-2 days.
on a “chill out at home” day we’ll give him gardening jobs to do outside like leaf raking or cleaning his football boots / bike with the hose.
by the time he’s done all that a few hours gaming is no big deal imo.

Having read your update about him begging for more unstructured holidays then my answer would be a direct deal that he can have unstructured time but needs to agree a time limit on the gaming with you that is then programmed in via parental controls to automatically stop. Also that he does some outdoor chores and makes some constructive plans with friends. Any complaints then next holidays he’s back at sports camp or whatever.

Yes, I think this is clear - we need a deal!

Yes that screen time quota is absolutely insane for a child. Probably cause mental health problems. Absurd , even 40percent of that would be more than ample.

I have a nearly 13 year old who is a bit like yours and despite all the people saying they'll grow out of it, etc, I can see the impact too much screen time, and particularly competitive gaming, has on him. We've tried a few different strategies over the years but the one that has really stuck and reduced arguments massively is having set times for "personal" screens (phone, tablet, laptop, console) which are set in stone. Weekday mornings screens are off by 7.30, weekends off by 9. Then off until 5pm and they go off at dinner time.

Outside those times TV is allowed, they'll watch some sport or we'll watch a film or a show together - but it's agreed and occasional and we don't have TVs in bedrooms. But it's made a huge difference that they're not always looking to get their screen time hit at all hours.

You leave your 12 year old to it because you CBA to entertain them and it suits you for them to be electronically babysat rather than engaged with..

No judgement here as everyone does things differently and everyone has different battles they are facing.

I have a nearly 13 year old DS2 (my middle one) and this is what we do in case helpful.

Phone is limited to one hour per day (through Microsoft Family Link) and off completely between 7.30pm and 8am. I can give him bonus time if he's messaging/calling friends.

Xbox is now very restricted (as in it's unplugged and in my wardrobe 😆) as he was using it way too much for him and his attitude/behaviour gets worse when he is gaming. He can still play but he has to ask and not everyday and not for more than 1.5 hours.

We didn't have to be like this with DS1 as he does not have an addictive personality in the way that DS2 does, he could take or leave the gaming and it didn't affect his behaviour in the same way, so different kids react differently.

I think we are probably pretty strict but I make sure he has other non-screen options available - he does a lot of sport, reads, walks the dog, goes to park/town with his friends. If he moans about being bored I give him the option of finding something to do or doing jobs for me 😁

He is a nicer and much happier child when his screen time is restricted, even though he'd much prefer it wasn't and thinks I'm way too strict.

Adults don't regulate - this is why so many adults are addicted to screens/ stare at their phones constantly.

It's literally insane to suggest that all children can cope with no regulation of screens - this is a teenage boy the OP says is ALREADY haveing 4 to 5 hours of gaming a day - I consider that too much personally but I realise may be normal.

my 12 year old is grumpy if he spends more than 2 hours gaming

As adults - we have a role for teenagers in showing them that they need a balanced life - that means - getting hours of fresh air/ exercise etc, building up a network of friends who will meet in the park/ having hobbies

we have to be tough! and it is SO HARD because we can't parent outside the society we live in - sometimes my son goes out to knock for friends saying lets go to the park and play football - and they are all gaming.

We need to connect to other parents - to arrange mutual agreements - get our kids organised and out.
No easy answer OP - maybe sit down with him and talk about what might work together?

If a child is struggling to come off gaming - it means the dopamine hit they are getting is having an addictive impact on them - they are furious because they can't get that dopamine.

I've tried very hard to teach my son that outdoor time comes first - I know this is hard once they are so 'into' the gaming. but in holidays - I push him a lot to make plans - and tell him no gaming unless there are other plans in the day.

Just as not all kids are the same, not all games are the same either.

My son plays extremely complex games, one required you to calculate landing trajectories for space craft and other stuff that frankly is mind boggling. He taught himself the physics equations to calculate this so he could play the game properly. He also plays a lot of historical war games which is a particular passion of his and again, it's helped him see a different side to some of the battles in history as these games are about troop management, supplies, planning etc etc. Again, quite incredible in sophistication.
So engage in what your kids are playing and encourage them to play things other than forttnite etc. Personally when they were low teens, I would approve every game before they were allowed install with parental.controls and I'd play them a bit myself or research it at least.
Total.screen time is an issue but the content of the screen time IMHO is more important.

Just a bit of a different perspective maybe, but my mum heavily restricted my TV and computer time when I was a teenager, she did the same for my older siblings gaming and we did all think she was a totalitarian dictator at the time but I am glad that she did. I think it’s paid off and I feel in control of my tec use which is something I know people struggle with. We definitely used to give her hell about it for sure. I’ve since said to her she did the right thing and I’m glad she did it which was a big “I told you so” pay off for her. 😂

@ChipsCheeseAndGravey from what i see - children/teens complain WHATEVER the rules are.

A friend of mine has totally banned tech! proper extreme - so yes her kids moan. but you know what - MY kids moan and I am much more liberal - my son tells me I am famous for being the strictest parent in our town! laughable honestly - he has a playstation in his room! But yes I only allow an hour or two a day and often have days off completely.

Most teenagers will just think their parents rules are strict whatever you do ! so you might as well be strict!

The truth is - it's not just about what 'gaming ' is - its about what it replaces. If your teen has a busy outdoor active life - then it's clearly less harmful when they do game.

if it's ALL they have in their life - then it's replacing other things to an unhealthy degree.

If the teen will listen - perhaps going in on this helps? Say - you HAVe to have other things in your life and until you do the gaming is going to be really restricted.

Yes to @everythingthelighttouches's 2 types - I have one of each and I can see the difference and have to parent differently. If I had two type 1s I would probably also come on here and say "relax, stop restricting, they'll grow out of it" if I had two type 2s I'd be on here saying "you're nuts to allow even 4 hours a day"

Type 2 is VERY hard to parent. I do think the battles are absolutely worth it in terms of physical and mental health and I've picked up some good ideas from this thread.

Just wanted to share my experience with this OP. My brother was allowed to play as much video games as he wanted when he was a teen. It completely tore apart my family. He never joined us on walks, days out, cinema trips, etc. He became quiet, isolated, unsociable. He wouldn't make conversations with us. He'd go to school and come home and go straight onto his PC. Weekends were spent sleeping or on his PC.

He's now 27 and does have a girlfriend and a good job. But he his relationship with me and my parents is shocking. He doesn't text or call, or come along to family functions. If I didn't make the effort, I don't think he'd ever speak to me again.

The gaming just completely stripped away any social skills and family unity we were developing as young teens.

There may be other factors involved that I'm not aware of - but the impact of the gaming was just absolutely ravaging to our family.

I will absolutely NEVER allow my children to have unlimited screen time.

Whatever you do, just try and claw back whatever time you have with him.

Totally agree- some people can self-regulate better than others, so the "if you don't restrict they will self-regulate" just isn't universally true. We know this by observing any other addictive behaviours. e.g. I find it really hard to understand why people get addicted to gambling - I play Euromillions (although often forget to renew ticket) and bet on the horses a few times a month but I have no compulsion to do it and could stop easily, but loads of people ruin their lives/ bankrupt themselves because they can't stop gambling.

My DC are definitely Type 2. They would scroll TikTok and YouTube all day. They don't because I don't let them. However, I agree with PP that it's a question of adding rather than taking away and being fairly strict about getting other stuff done first. I do also think there's a difference between gaming/ interacting with friends, albeit online and just "consumption mode" - flicking between 60 second shorts for hours at a time.

We do similar. No hard & fast limits on times.

Homework is a non negotiable, plus scouts & football training on week nights.
No strict screen limits the rest of the time apart from no screens at the table or after 8pm.
We do break up weekends and holidays with walks, cafes, days out, visits to family etc so it's not unfettered access. This holiday we've been bowling, to a theme park, museum. various walks. I've managed to find a set of anime books that DS enjoys reading plus he likes drawing & baking so will sometimes do this.
The hell in a hand cart brigade seem to be assuming the children without screen limits are gaming from dawn till dusk without ever leaving the house which isn't likely to be the case. It doesn't have to be all or nothing just because screen limits aren't strictly enforced. I think the key is making sure they are offered opportunities to do other things.

I wonder whether some of this is chicken and egg.

Ds is 14, highly imaginative, veers heavily towards English and science in school. Always has been. Is also incredibly shy and socially awkward- before he was allowed fairly unrestricted time. He games a lot alone, but really comes alive if his friends are online. He enjoys story based games and has been doing of historical reading, based on assassin's creed.
He does a martial.art and a cadets type thing.
I think he finds the outside world quite stressful, so I've accepted that gaming is his safe place, like reading and writing were for me.

Rules: no screens after 9.
Eat at the table with us.
Do family stuff with us when required.
Watch TV with us weekend evenings.
Homework first, although his school doesn't really do hw.

Dd yr 7. No imagination. Doesn't enjoy reading. Enjoys socialising. Not really into films. Games if there's nothing else to do.

I do agree that too much gaming is detrimental, but I think there are often other issues at play. I've tried boring my kids into doing something more creative, but it doesn't really work without an 80s or 90s childhood.

This.
As a society we're walking into an absolute health and mental health crisis.
We will look back in horror just as we look back in horror at our parents being so laxidasical about no seat belts and smacking.
I think the easiest way to do it is to discuss what they see as reasonable set up a system and stick to it. Let them know if they moan too much they lose it the next day.

Mine all game but not everyday and not all day (teens 14, 16, 18). They get bored they organised and this makes them organise stuff with their mates. So many of my friends kids never leave the house unless with a parent. Lots of them are overweight/anxious etc etc
These are kids that are on their phones for 8 hours a day and then the parents wonder why they are anxious. Fucking drives me insane.
If I get ready fed up with is about neurodiverse kids. Or three of mine in the neurodiverse they're the ones that need to be monitored the most as they have such a propensity to being addicted to these things and relying on them to regulate. Yes they can be good but as of everything there has to be a balance and finding other ways to self-regulate is so important (mine use sport, walking, art, playing guitar, playing with our dogs and one of them meditates).

Keep going OP. There's nothing wrong with having arguments with teens. In fact teens need to have something to battle against and this is for the greater good.

I have two sons, now 21 and 18.

I think you need to tell him that you will be having a short sit down talk about screen time. This gives him time to prepare what he wants to say about it. Then come to the table with what it is you want. You know what he wants but let him put his view point across so he feels heard by you. Tell him you won't be making a decision that night but will think on what he is asking for and there will be another "family meeting" as we called them.

"TikTok shite" is what he finds entertaining along with millions of others out there, think how many adults played Candy Crush, Angry Bird, how many watch Love Island or Married at First Sight. He likes what he likes, you criticising him will just distance you further from him. You admit that he will watch tv with his Dad, go on dog walks, plays sports, has evening meals as a family, hands over his phone at 8pm. So no sulking in his room.

Is the crux of it that you want him to accept the screen time limits without the complaints, whining and fuss?

I think in your situation I would give him a little extra time on the understanding that when it is time to come off he comes off without any complaint. He will get one warning and if he continues then you will reduce the time he has the next day. He will see this as a win as he gets extra time, you see it as a win as he will stop moaning about it. Tell him there will be another family meeting in X weeks for everyone to voice how they feel about this and whether it is working. He will feel listened to. But also maybe suggest other things you think he should look at during his screen time. If he is an only child then he probably wants to connect with his mates on his headset.

What worked for me was rewarding compliance and giving consequences for non-compliance.

So you all agree 5 hours of gaming per day (or whatever) but that is dependent on him switching off without all the sulking. Otherwise, it's four hours tomorrow.

There are some posts on here that seem to worry about 'damaging your relationship.' As a teacher, I hear this all the time. I have parents at the door telling me that their child is tired because they couldn't get them to bed, or they haven't done their homework, or any one of a dozen issues, but they can't do anything about it 'because I don't want to damage our relationship.' To me, this feels like fairly weak parenting and giving the child whatever they want so that they don't get upset. IME children understand when fair boundaries come from a place of love and concern. In class discussions, children will admit that they moan about rules but know why they are there - because they are loved, to keep them safe and healthy. The children who do not have rules enforced do not seem happier or to love their parents more. Quite the opposite actually. And one day what they want will be something you simply cannot accept, without any safe rehearsal.

Amazed at some responses here being so relaxed about screens.

i think you’re right to restrict if he cannot manage the time himself. I’d be forcing him to spend more time out of the house on other activities if it gets really out of hand. There’s a lot of evidence about screen time and children’s development and it has a pretty negative correlation. IMO it’s also about the fact he is not learning to seek out other things when bored. If he really enjoys one game for example I might be prepared to facilitate a deep dive into that eg find a gaming group at a library or something . But if he’s using this just as a way lazy way to relieve boredom I’d be continuing my approach despite the conflict. Also I feel your DH should be backing you up here.. it sounds like he also likes to sit and be lazy chill which would pee me off if that is happening at the cost of other parts of life!!

Out of curiosity, what is your phone screen time?