Divorcing a teacher

[MarioBrothers]

I'm splitting from my husband. We are only at the start. He is a teacher and arguing for almost all school holidays as I will need to use childcare and summer camps as I work full time. He is arguing it makes more sense just for him to have them for the whole of the holidays with me having weekends during all school holidays. DC are 5 and 6. He is also arguing this is reason for him to stay in family home and for me to rent somewhere.

AIBU to say I still want normal arrangements during holidays? He says yes, becasue I would be paying for childcare - which is true at least some of the time as only have 25 days leave.

We haven't even worked out a schedule yet and still living together but this is one the first arguments that has come up.

AIBU to think that even if I have to use childcare, it's not fair on the kids to be separated from me for the whole of holidays (excdept for weekends).

If he wants to do all childcare in the week during school holidays you should let him. Can they do an overnight or two during the week with you so you see them after work on weeks where he has them and they aren’t away?

I think you should fight for what you feel is best for the children. I don't think he should get all the holidays because he's a teacher. I don't actually think it's in their best interests. I think he's being guided by greed over what's best for the kids. He needed me time during your marriage and was probably a better person for it. Why doesn't he need me time now?

It makes sense for them to be with their dad.
I think you are being precious about them being away from mum when the alternative is away from dad,
It's not like you arc sticking them into a club with strangers looking after them.

He is also arguing this is reason for him to stay in family home and for me to rent somewhere.
I would keep reminding him that the custody plans for the children and the future ownership of your current home are two separate issues and need to be negotiated separately.

If he wants to stay in the family home then he needs to buy out your share, or take over the rental by himself if it’s rented. The times you each have the children is a completely separate topic to this.

I disagree. Them going to clubs is the status quo. They have gone to these clubs previously at dads request for ME time. His job and the holidays haven't changed. They enjoy the clubs. They are with their friend. They aren't with strangers. and OP will be able to be with them after 3. The relationship has changed and he just wants a leg up to get the house.

But if you'll be WFH while keeping an eye on them, how is it any better than your grouses about him? ("He takes them to park but he also puts on a lot of youtube. He also doesn't plan ahead and DS struggles a lot with not doing what he is doing from one day to next.")

Really not trying to pile on, just trying to understand??

Your judgement is clouded. What's the point in you having them if you're just going to use childcare? If a Dad did that, he'd be called a deadbeat. Take advantage of what's being offered, because it's best for your kids. It's mostly about them, not you.

But you will be seeing them loads if he has offered you every single weekend in the summer...

I think you having them 2 weeks and him 4 weeks in the summer makes sense. Then half the Christmas and half the easter holiday, and I'd suggest he has them half terms, but you have them the weekend before and after half term.

Assuming you get the statutory 5 weeks holiday, that then leaves you with 5 emergency days.

Something like two weeks summer, one week Christmas and Easter and one half term. Then you could cover most or all of that with annual leave.

He would be called a deadbeat for working full time, paying for 80% of everything, putting them in the school club and picking them up at 3pm and then catching up on work after their bedtime - all to ensure they still see their mum regularly through the holidays?

Thank you for all the helpful practical examples of how we can split time so they get proper time with both parents during holidays.

I resent the idea though that them being in a club, being picked up early and then with me until bedtime isn't parenting somehow and that they'll be better off with their dad the whole time. I don't think that's true.

Why would you prefer for your kids to be in a kids club/childcare rather than with dad? What do you do now in the holiday? Do they go to kids club whilst dad sits at home?just agree with him which holidays you will have and let them stay with dad for the rest of them.

Can you take unpaid leave /parenting leave so you can have them for half the holidays?

This sounds like a sensible solution

On the flip side, I have found it pretty unfair when my ex has insisted on having the children for "his share" but then worked and put them in a holiday club when then could have had time with me (not a teacher but get decent holidays/Flexi time). Mine don't particularly like all-day clubs, or sloping round the house while he/I WFH

I expect your children would prefer to be with the parent who is on leave.

The suggestion of you having more weekends instead makes sense.

Otherwise I would look at buying extra leave from work or something so you can have half the holidays

@MarioBrothers he sounds like a bully. Is he controlling? My ex tried various things like this when we were splitting. Be very careful as he may well try and use against you in the future - could be maintenance related, emotionally with the kids or something else. He's obviously already trying it with the house.

Yes it makes sense to utilise childcare availability where possible but not to keep you away from your children! He could have them in the day and you pick them up after work, no problem IF he's being a reasonable decent person. The best thing for the kids is to have plenty of time with both of you.

I'm FT now but when I worked PT I'd have the kids in the day in the holiday then ex would collect them after work on his nights. And even now I WFH and he doesn't so I do more days in the holidays but they still have their nights with him.

Don't agree because he's wearing you down. And don't take too much to heart from Mumsnet either, a lot will be responding from a different place: NOT having experience of someone who's controlling and with no understanding of the pain of being away from your kids - which is horrible for you and for them.

Stay strong and if you find it easier talk to your ex about it via email instead - easier to put your point across without being shouted down. Especially when you're still living together and the atmosphere is toxic.

Good luck 💐

I suspect this is all a red herring....He wants to stay in the house. So having the kids 'more' is a way of arguing this. However, you might want to have a full financial split now as having assets held until birth kids turn 18 would be a pain. I assume you'll both need somewhere to live.... You are both going to have to live in cheaper housing unless one of is about to win the lottery

Has he happily looked after their care and entertainment during all his non-term time breaks up until this point?

Who has done the bulk of childcare and household care for the past 6 years?

Who is the primary caregiver now?

These are all important factors ...

They used to go to clubs during holidays even though H is teacher to give him some 'me time'. He now says he doesn't want this 'me time' & he is happy to have them Monday - Friday for the whole 6 weeks.

This is quite telling. I don't believe he now 'magically' will want to look after them rather than put them into clubs for is 'me time'. He will revert to form if and once he gets what he wants: the house and a childcare arrangement agreement that would have to be challenged legally after the fact.

Can't say I'm surprised.

@MarioBrothers
His six weeks thing is crazy.
You'll want to have a holiday with them too.
Just say no.

Something like the following might work:
Week 1 him
Weeks 2+3 you
Weeks 4+5 him
Week 6 you would make far more sense, allowing both of you to go away on holiday with your kids.

I'm a divorced teacher and do have the kids most of the holidays, but they live with me and exH tells me when he's taking time off.

If he's not particularly hands on now, I'd not worry about it too much, and most definitely don't agree to anything.
These things can be sorted in mediation.

What are his week day plans for covering parents evenings, open evenings etc?

That's not what was being suggested.
The op says that he would like to have them during the week, whilst he is not working so they wouldn't need to go to childcare/holiday clubs.
The proposal is that the op then has them each weekend during the holidays.

To be fair, the week days make sense - he is off work, the OP's childcare costs are reduced.

In the summer the op could take 1-2 week's holiday perhaps to break that time up.

The house proposal doesn't make sense though.

Weekends are not the same quality time as holidays, there is often homework, clubs, other children’s birthday parties etc. So definitely not fair for you to have weekends and he has holidays!
I would suggest starting from a 50/50 split of weekdays / weekends / holidays and then agree on swaps, for ex out of the 6 weeks summer holidays he has them 4 (7 more days than a 50/50 split) and in exchange you have them for 4 more weekends.

Re the house, if you are having the children 50/50 (or near) then selling the house and you each buying/renting something else makes sense.

The 'norm' during a divorce is that one parent stays in the family home with the kids until they leave full time education, isn't it?

Not necessarily, unless one parent can buy the other out to some extent - or make a different financial arrangement.
Often the house needs to be sold or bought out in order for both, or the other, parent to get themselves somewhere to live.

My DC used to regard holiday club as a treat, not "childcare". They had a busy day doing an activity they'd chosen and be taken home nicely tired out and ready for tea, with several hours left to hang out with parents (XH and I were together then) and siblings before bed. The way some posters are talking you'd think the OP would be sending the poor sprogs off to boarding school in what's supposed to be their holidays.

Re the house, when I divorced some 16 years ago the starting assumption was a 50-50 split, provided there was enough equity for a reasonable deposit and affordable mortgage for each of us. The court deemed there was no reason to depart from this in our case. I'm not sure why a pp suggested OP should go for at least 70% of the equity, given that she is apparently the higher earner? Unless that's in expectation of being negotiated down.

Just going to wade in here and say that my friend (the father) took his ex wife to court over contact issues, one of which was she was prioritising clubs over the father caring for his child when he was trying to arrange contact.
Judge was very clear that clubs come second to a parent who’s free to look after their own kid(s).