To comment on my daughter's dress sense

[mids2019]

We have a 14 year old daughter and like all 14 year olds she wishes wishes to experiment with styles of clothing. Lately she has been choosing dresses which are rather short and cleave fairly closely to her figure. (Including a small amount of cleavage) as well as crop tops.

I am conflicted on whether the dress style is appropriate for all occasions, especially when some of her friends share the same dress sense.

Do you think criticising or making girls think about their dress sense and what people's perceptions (rightly or wrongly ) is reasonable or so we leave a fair amount latitude toward teen girls (all girls push boundaries to an extent)

@KeinLiebeslied54321

Why are you off on a tangent?
The original topic was not concerning clothes which look like this
No tangent. Some people have said never to comment on what is worn EVER. I was making the point that there are lines that shouldn't be crossed so the absolute assertion that one should never say no is just wrong.
If a girl chose to wear what I posted then even you seem to agree it would be appropriate to step in. Whether a 13/14 year kid wore what I posted whilst wearing a lacy bra? No nips on show. Would you still say she can wear what she want?
It is not a tangent to show that there is a point where it is not ok for a 13/14 year old to wear what they want. The question is where is the line

This is a minefield, isn't it? Female clothing has always been sexualised, the design is to appeal to the male gaze. That's a tough lesson for a teenage girl who wants to fit in.
Where I teach the girls yr7-11 often wear those tight tube skirts, just covering underwear, and sometimes not completely.
When they go into 6th form and wear their own clothes, they often choose leggings (often scrunch bum) with a crop top, or a bandeau or halter top. The boys are in jeans with a sweatshirt or T-shirt. It's a gender contrast.
The exception is the Muslim girls, who mostly wear the floor length black jalbib and a hijab .What's going on? One community has a view about modesty. Other parents just buy tight short skirts, crop tops etc and allow their daughters to make these choices.
Is it about policing women's bodies? Is it about making clothing choices that don't pander to the male gaze?

Wow talk about missing the mark. I hope you see why this is stupid. Male teachers don’t ‘chastise’ they just don’t want to see arses hanging out in school, nor do the female staff. Teach decency and modesty, why on earth do parents think it’s ok for kids to have their butt cheeks on display in school?

Mine at that age would wear see-through leggings with a short top. I regularly told her I could see her pants. For me that's a line.

@Abbimae - where I work, men teachers do not comment on girls' clothing because they don't want to be accused of anything. You can see the problem from what the OP's daughter has implied.
I don't look or comment either because I don't want to run the risk of an accusation.

It’s easy to say “parent them” etc I do wonder if those posters have ever actually had girls? Who wants to crush their own daughters self esteem and damage your relationship with over clothes? . Is it worth it? Totally agree with MrsDusk.

Our parents (3 girls) never commented negatively on what we wore. These are young girls navigating growing up bombarded by SM and peer pressure and pervy men. We need to be on their side not call them misogynistic names or shame them.

My mum made a big thing about girls wearing short skirts and not showing too much leg or belly etc. Looking back I had the best body ever and wish I could have had the confidence but I always had my mum in my head judging people. I remember a conservative girl wearing a mini skirt with a full tshirt and being so confused she was allowed to wear a mini skirt.

Guess what I’m say OP is tread lightly as what you say can or will affect her thinking or confidence in clothes. Maybe just talk about different clothes got different settings rather than shaming short dresses altogether

Maybe most parents aren't shaming, they're just trying to navigate across a difficult sea!
I started the conversation early with mine and tried to encourage self confidence. Doing sport in an all female environment definitely helped. They chose to wear clothes which were quite fashionable, but they never really favoured leggings or crop tops.

it won’t ’crush their self esteem’ dont be so dramatic. The likelihood is she won’t listen and will continue to wear what she wants anyway, but I would just caution against showing loads of boob or bum at her age because there are all sorts of perverts around and she’s underage.

I wouldn’t let my children go naked on the beach etc for similar reasons. Not because of ‘body shaming’ but because unfortunately I cannot control male behaviour and I refuse to make an example of my own children.

Blame society. You only have to look at the sort of role models girls this age are looking up to, to understand why they make the fashion decisions they do. They are bombarded with car crash Z Listers plastered all over the tabloids practically naked. I wonder what message even younger girls are getting about body image and how to dress from the likes of the latest Barbie franchise. People were queuing up to take all their impressionable minors to the movie. Soon they will probably be wondering why their children are all puckering at the camera on Tiktok, rolling their skirts up at school and worrying they aren't perfect enough.

How can you explain the adult women some on this thread who remember the damaging negative comments from parents then? How
would you feel if your dd (or anyone else) told you to your face that your outfit made you look say fat and middle aged?

My beautiful teen had a dreadful experience on a bus - verbal sexual assault from an adult male. She was wearing no make up hair tied back and was dressed in her school tracksuit. Another young woman stepped in and the driver threw him off.

I thought this was going to be a thread about a young adult. 14 is still very much a child and I would definitely still parent/correct/guide my child on all matters including dressing appropriately.

Yes to this.

And I’d never ever body shame or be unkind to anyone about their clothing. I talk about appropriate clothing, not anything “wrong” with the wearer.

I'm not sure why you have a problem with the Barbie film?

I think at 14 your first duty is to protect her. Yes, yes, in an ideal world women wear what they like, it's not our responsibility to police men by being modest, its self expression...bla bla bla. Unfortunately there are a number of uncomfortable truths that get in the way of this. Firstly, men will leer at children in revealing clothes. While this is not the child's fault, it nevertheless can cause them a great deal of discomfort and even endanger them. Until the day men stop perving over our children, I'd put protecting them as a higher priority than a principle.
Secondly, self expression that results in children wearing clothes that are tight, revealing, restrictive and weather inappropriate is nothing of the kind. It's manipulation pure and simple by a fashion industry designed around giving men what they want to see. If adult women in full knowledge of this choose these clothes, all good. A 14 year old typically lacks the maturity to be making an informed decision.
All that said, there obviously needs to be a balance. Your DD is going to want to follow the other girls and may suffer socially if she doesn't. For that reason I'd arrive at a compromise with nothing too extreme permitted...you know it when you see it.

@5128gap - good points, and my approach too.

Stop telling me what you think I think.
I have made my points and have no desire to discuss this silly tangent with you.

My 16yo rocks up in all sorts of crazy ensembles, make up too. I suggested the other day that her foundation had turned green (no idea why it was green - too pale or the wrong undertone I think) but I rarely say anything because I have other battles worth picking.

I'm in the dont say anything camp except that she looks great. But sometimes it's hard but I remember comments as a teen from my step dad which made me feel more ashamed than any stares I might have got. I think it's for her to negotiate and she'll decide herself how she likes to dress and what's comfortable.
Men have been checking her out since she was eleven which is really gross but it's not her fault

Agree raffe. So yesterday it was a plunging top. I said wow it does look great Dd but quite low not sure I would be comfortable in it myself. She said nothing but when she left she was wearing an off the shoulder top which was a definite improvement. Paired with tracksuit bottoms and Ugg's which are hardly enticing sexualised clothes! And a fur coat.

They look gorgeous whatever they wear

Wow. Such a wide range of replies and again I feel a little comforted feeling I am not alone with wrestling with this.

I think it'd what is considered the 'limit' in dress sense that may be hard to navigate. In the years above amongst some girls there is a definite sense of dressing to attract boys (men?) and at least gain attention.

I agree clothed companies are profiting from this and will portray revealing dresses modelled by adults knowing full well there is a child market out there. Clothes companies won't dare use a 15 year old model for these garments but they do profit from the under 16 market.

Peer pressure is massive at this age and a lot of the skimpy gear stuff is to fit in. No one wants to be the one left out.

@KeinLiebeslied54321

Stop telling me what you think I think.
I have made my points and have no desire to discuss this silly tangent with you.
You literally have no idea how forums work do you 😂

Peer pressure has always been massive read Anne of Green Gables she was flipping obsessed with her ribbons and calico. Only now it’s turbo charged due to SM and sexualised due to horrible culture.

It’s really hard parenting this and treading the line so I think it’s mean when parents who will never face this issue judge (ie my uni friend with two very sweet geeky teen boys). Walk in the shoes of a mum with a wild dressing teen girl before you speak.

I had one golden rule when my dds were teens. If they had a short skirt or dress on they had to do the arse test. I used to get them to bend over & if I cold see their undies then it was to short.
My eldest dgd doesn't wear skirts or dresses but will wear clingy jumpsuits that show her foof & she loves crop tops though tbf she has the figure to wear them.

when my youngest left home we were sorting her clothes, what to take what to throw and what to give to charity, she held up a pair of trousers and said "you let me go out in these?" What ever you do will be wrong, the joys of parenting