To comment on my daughter's dress sense

[mids2019]

We have a 14 year old daughter and like all 14 year olds she wishes wishes to experiment with styles of clothing. Lately she has been choosing dresses which are rather short and cleave fairly closely to her figure. (Including a small amount of cleavage) as well as crop tops.

I am conflicted on whether the dress style is appropriate for all occasions, especially when some of her friends share the same dress sense.

Do you think criticising or making girls think about their dress sense and what people's perceptions (rightly or wrongly ) is reasonable or so we leave a fair amount latitude toward teen girls (all girls push boundaries to an extent)

@KeinLiebeslied54321

Lots of the teenage girls in our area love strappy, sometimes tiny, tops but I've yet to see one with their n*les intentionally on display like that.

So we agree that there are times when it would be appropriate to say something and not just say 'you look nice dear'

Why are you off on a tangent?
The original topic was not concerning clothes which look like this.

I know I'm a bit weird but as a 70's schoolgirl it never even occurred to me, or my friends, from what I can remember at least, to roll my skirt up etc. Went to an all girls convent school, if that makes the difference. We still fancied boys etc but the circumstances/times dictated being less "brazen" so to speak, perhaps? Perhaps there was more room for difference then than there is now, counter intuitively...

I think one of the things that I have become more accurately aware of is that you can have a child (and they are a child) at 13/14 that has a relatively mature body and it's choosing clothes to accomodate that.

I get 13 year olds wish to appear more adult (I think there is an element of wishing your life way there) but do you limit the experimentation at that age?

I think family culture is also a big factor. If you are devout in a particular faith then maybe clothes are more conservative?

I wonder also if there is an element of peer pressure where you don't want to appear square (if that's still a word otherwise it's modern equivalent)

What are you trying to achieve?

You're obviously articulate enough to discuss on mumsnet. Why are you not discussing with your daughter?

And hint, it's actually quite interesting to discuss with daughter and a few of her friends.

It's like throwing the dilemma out on mumsnet.

All the girls want to voice an opinion and debate.

@OldPerson

it was good to feel I wasn't the only one with this dilemma?

I do discuss this with my daughter but I was split about whether to allow a girl to freely decide her clothes or should there be parental input and if so to what extent.

the thoughts here have been quite helpful.

When my daughter went through this phase at your daughter’s age I had a long think about how I was going to handle this like you are now. My decision was, unless she was showing underwear etc I would say nothing. Women already have their bodies scrutinised - why add to things by making her self conscious? Teens are already self conscious enough. At the moment she is choosing clothes to make her feel happy and confident - by making her self conscious you will take that a way and instead replace it with self doubt and angst.
you will also be giving your daughter the message she is responsible for dressing in a way that does not result in men objectifying her. Is that what you want?
this is a phase and will pass. My daughter is now 17 and body confident.

Some of the posters on this thread sound as though they were never young!!

@ittakes2

thank you for your helpful post.

I like the idea of body confidence and I believe she has. Having a quite athletic body I suspect she may be fishing for components a little!

I suppose it's judging the line between outfits that are shapely and outfits which I think there may some debate about appropriateness . I am getting an impression this may be subtle.

There seems to be a divide in this thread between 'body positive and don't let men define your dress code' and ' really some outfits are too mature for a 14 year old and ask of of people would feel it inappropriate from a skin revealing point of view'

@nothingsforgotten

good point!

our older relatives were children of the 60s where clothes were pretty risque. Now they are really quite conservative and judgmental; maybe it's an age thing?

When I looked after some girls of this age, their dawning awareness led them all to start wearing ankle-length school skirts.

They were still trailed every morning by cars full of lasciviously jeering men.

It's not the clothes.

@Garlicked

Good point. Schools have skirt length rules for a reason so if a professional body with safeguarding to the fore makes rules on clothing should the general 'rule' be any different.

Fairly sure someone said this previously… say nothing or give a compliment!
fashion is exactly as you describe for teenage girls just now, it’ll change again!

I always remember a time going out in a “skimpy” dress, my brother was disgusted and asked my dad if he was allowing me out “wearing that”… my dads response was “she can wear what she likes, the dress is nice and she looks good”. My bro still stews over it now 20+ yrs on…he has a daughter, oh how I laugh because he’ll have this to go through when she’s grown 😂

My DD17 is at 6th form college and both her and I are appalled at what most of the girls there wear.

She says they mostly look like they've arrived after spending all night at a party - really ungroomed and all wearing baggy jogging bottoms with tiny skimpy tops and puffa jackets hanging off one shoulder.

It's the top performing college in the county so these are bright girls, but it's a look that says I'm sexually available but undiscerning...

Wearing joggers sends a message that you are sexually available?! Wtf!

Just tell her what you're thinking and the possible reaction from males around her. I had a girls night out with family when my daughter was 16 and was horrified at the cleavage achieved by a push-up bra and a tight low top. As soon as I was able to I sewed up an inch at the front of that top. She didn't realise at first then dumped the top 😁

Don't let men define your dress code.

But we've come full circle now - all these young girls dressing in sexually provocative clothing 24/7 are absolutely 100% doing it to attract male attention!

Women and girls will be criticised whatever they wear. Bring your DD up to be confident enough to wear anything she damn well wants.

Katrina Johnson Thompson is having an identity crisis even as we speak!

I disagree. If the daughter's attire is simply not to OP's personal taste, she should keep quiet. However, if the daughter is actually going out looking 'trashy' then, as her mum, she should say something. If nothing else, telling her she looks 'amazing and gorgeous' would be an outright lie.

This, I've seen some really inappropriate young girls dressed really trashy and think where are her parents. Why are people so scared to parent ?

I don't think it helps to comment on appearance, but I do think she needs to be prepared for the attention that clothing choices can attract.

In an ideal world, women and girls would be able to wear what they want without judgement or fear of predation. We all know that that isn't the reality we live in, so please teach her how to look after herself.

We really still refer to women and girls as trashy? Bloody hell.

Does she ever ask you for your opinion on her clothes? I used to ask my mum all the time before a night out. If she didn’t like anything she’d give a ‘hmm…. It looks okay’ response. That was enough for me and I was straight back to my room to change. Once she said it, but I really liked my outfit so I stuck to my guns. I was going out with a friend 2 towns over, but couldn’t get her response out of my head, so ended up driving home to get changed.

I’m nearly 50. I still remember my mother telling me, when I was 13, that I looked like a hooker. I was wearing a maxi denim skirt, long sleeved black t-shirt - albeit with quite the v-neck 😂 (plus 15 million bracelets) for a birthday party, but had dared experiment with eyeliner.
She insisted I keep short hair because it wouldn’t suit me to have long hair and it would be too much hard work to maintain.
She made me diet from that age as well, because I “was showing signs of becoming overweight like her”. No, I was just well developed with boobs and hips.

Please OP, don’t comment negatively. Unless it’s wildly inappropriate for the occasion (and even then don’t comment negatively but guide by maybe suggesting something that might look great for the occasion), just tell her she looks lovely.

I remember all the things my mother commented on re: clothing/make up choices and I’m not one to hold grudges. There is something about the person meant to be on your team and teaching you confidence, doing the exact opposite. She had me very young and I understand now that her issues with me were actually just her projecting her own shit onto me. But for many reasons we are nc now.

My son is 11. He favours skinny jeans no matter how many times people will tell him they look girly. I will defend his choices every time. He grew his hair long, then recently chopped it all off. He loves bright colours, but if tomorrow he wanted to make like Wednesday Adams in all black I’d be fine with that, too.
I don’t think I’d approach it differently with a girl. General discussions about what’s appropriate and about sustainability, sure. Comments on personal choice, not so much.