To comment on my daughter's dress sense

[mids2019]

We have a 14 year old daughter and like all 14 year olds she wishes wishes to experiment with styles of clothing. Lately she has been choosing dresses which are rather short and cleave fairly closely to her figure. (Including a small amount of cleavage) as well as crop tops.

I am conflicted on whether the dress style is appropriate for all occasions, especially when some of her friends share the same dress sense.

Do you think criticising or making girls think about their dress sense and what people's perceptions (rightly or wrongly ) is reasonable or so we leave a fair amount latitude toward teen girls (all girls push boundaries to an extent)

I don’t say anything to mine (15). I bite my tongue

What is your point about safety OP? Hopefully you aren’t suggesting that wearing revealing clothing is any way related to the chances of being assaulted.
Its a rite of passage for teenagers to wear clothes their parents don’t like and/or don’t understand.
DD knows that for family events though that not too short or low cut; crop tops I don’t mind as they’re generally with high waisted jeans or trousers so not showing much skin

If my DM thought I was wearing something awful, she'd tell me she liked it.

Worked every time for her, such is teen desperation to not be like your parents.

I don’t care what young women wear. What I do find sad is how much make up they put on their already flawless faces.

I wouldn’t let my 14 year old go out showing loads of cleavage and bum.

In the absence of being able to control male behaviour, I would want her to protect herself.

My DD is 20 and has been dressing for the boulevard since she was old enough to sneak out and get changed at a friend’s house. I have never said anything, she would hand me my arse and it’s not worth it.

This is a brilliant rule!

Please don't criticise what she's wearing. Women should not be made to feel like victims because of what they wear. People don't get raped because they are wearing a crop top. No one should have to worry about a man controlling his gaze, it's utter nonsense.

She absolutely needs to learn about suitable outfits for an occasion - wearing a short bodycon dress to a funeral or job interview is not sensible, but absolutely ok for a trip to the shops or cinema.

I said to mine that the world isn't fair and you will be judged and treated differently accordingly to the way you dress so you have to take that into consideration. That's how I've always thought of it myself. I wore very little sometimes when I was in my teens and early twenties.

One of mine is all emo or whatever it's evolved in to now and the only time I've actually said something is when she was wearing fish net tights and a very short skirt to a non-uniform day at school and I told her it was inappropriate. I might have even said 'you aren't going out like that'.

Commenting on her dress sense: absolutely not.
Having an honest discussion about the sort of coverage that is appropriate in different situations: completely necessary.

Like, does she know what it looks like if she bends over? Or sits cross legged? Or leans down? What does it say about her to other people?

I was a 90s teenager and it was the era of the wonder bra. We definitely went teetering about in not many clothes, to nightclubs underage being ogled and griped by older men. I also remember older men harassing us in our school uniforms and when wearing more modest clothing. Teen girls dressing in skimpy clothing is nothing new.

Absolutely advise her about situations which do require suitable dressing- funerals, jobs, formal events etc.But otherwise leave her be.

I'm 52 and I remember my DSis wearing skirts and dresses that just about covered her knickers (we're talking the '80s). I went the other way and was full on hippy - maxi dresses and skirts, 30,000 bangles, wafted about.

My DPs never said a word to either of us - but we did laugh at DSis's indignation when cars drove past and hooted and cat called her! She was always so mad with them!

So no, don't say anything, OP. It's gone on for a million years and always will. My DIL wears very short dresses and I've seen her gusset more times than I could count, but I love her. Let your DD find her way.

Some typos and spelling errors in my post above 🙄

The male teachers at my school refuse to comment on skirt length and ask me or other female colleagues to do it because they are fed up with being told they are paedos. Many teenage girls sit down and their skirt is invisible and their knickers are on display, I do tell them that it is inappropriate. It's not body shaming or policing their fashion but I remind them that they would be the first to complain it I began flashing my underwear at them. I think you can let your daughter wear what she likes but point out that she needs to think about where it may not be appropriate to rock up with her knickers or cleavage out.

I have a teen and have the same rule as a pp about shorts if you can see knickers when bending over. I've also said no to corset tops that look like underwear (sheer lace panels, boning on show) but as part of a conversation about how it could be read as underwear by some people and how some men might interpret that (and yes, with the caveat that we are not responsible for men's thoughts) and she was very put off that someone might think of sex looking at a top like that so she decided she no longer wanted one.

But always very positive, not shaming, not blaming, and I overall support her clothing choices.

They can't help the shape of their bodies! We need to help turn feel good about themselves.

If she's going out with friends just leave her to it. If she's attending a wedding or a funeral then I think you should step in and guide her to something more appropriate.

I would not concentrate on the clothes instead I would focus on doing everything you can to make sure she has good self-esteem, is happy with herself and her body and knows what healthy relationships are.

That will help with her understanding that her value is not just about her appearance and not allow boys and later men to take advantage of her.

Beyond that most teenager experiment with their clothings and hair one way or another...

Basically raise a strong, feminist girl and she will be better prepared for life! rather than telling her she needs to cover herself because some pervy guy will take it as a sexual invite.

Thank you for all your responses. I really do take the point it should not to up to men to determine what a woman should wear and a what a man wants to think is his problem. However men and boys are drawn to women s figures (and vice versa obvs).

I wonder if right clothes for the right situation is something that comes with experience of whether it is a result of dicussion?

If it's a family gathering, I'd discuss it in terms of dress codes. So cocktail, formal, smart casual etc. It is an important skill to learn, and one that doesn't always come naturally.

If she's going out with friends then I'd advise it was seasonally appropriate but let her get cold if she refused to add a jumper. I personally don't see anything wrong with crop tips tbh.

All those saying “parent her” tell her off etc have boys or toddlers - bet my hat.

This is really difficult. The time Dd was severely verbally sexually harassed on a bus she was in a school tracksuit no make up hair tied back.

Dd3 walks in from school with her skirt shorter than her blazer 🙄 I mention it as in “skirt should be longer than you blazer… if you get a log at school that’s on you”… she’s currently still little and cute so gets away with it (not hit puberty yet) but in year 9 I think she’ll start being told off. I also wouldn’t tolerate indecency like Bianca (lady with Kanye). I do teach my dc that the world will judge them and they need to make choices about the impression they want to make.

i hate seeing arse cheeks hanging out of shorts and cropped tops too cropped ( can see bra)
I have always tried to keep high standards of clothing with my kids but my step kids wear whatever they like so it’s become more of a losing battle unfortunately, I really don’t think they should dress the way they do but it is what it is.
what I try to do is have rules about the time and place, So Sunday dinner with family? Don’t need to see anyone’s belly, into town / to lunch, don’t need to see anyone’s arse. I’m much more relaxed around the house and on holiday, I really just want them to have respect for their appearances and learn that sometimes you need to think about which outfit is appropriate rather than just wearing it ‘because everyone else does’. I hate it when I feel they look cheap ( I’d never say it to them) they should be classier most of the time but I’ll never win that one!

I am sure she looks amazingly- leave her to find her style!

Women should dress to please themselves not other people. My DD is in 6th form and the skirts are short!! She goes out in tiny dresses and crop tops - they all do in her group. Our approach has always therefore about keeping safe- friends staying together, mobiles charged and live 360 on, carrying alarms and we have always taken her and picked her up or arranged a cab.

I would not say a thing - commenting can make even the nicest of teenagers choose something even shorter/tighter next time. TBH, despite wearing quite tight and/or short as a younger me, I do wonder how much shorter/tighter some outfits can go before there will be nothing left! She may well get fed up of being absolutely freezing all the time and opt for more practical clothing, if you are in the UK that is!

Think about what you are actually saying there - effectively that how you dress would 'protect' her from males? How is that true? How should a girl in a short/tight dress be considered any less protected than one in a pair of combats and a hoody? Men attack women in all sorts of outfits, and the women's clothing were not once to blame for them being attacked!

I think it's fine to comment.

Now and again I've vetoed DDs choices when shes ordered things online, along the lines of "that is not appropriate, you are still a child and that clings, is too short, too skimpy etc"

One time she was saying she was going to keep a dress and i just said "you look like a streetwalker and you're not wearing that, so send it back".