AIBU to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Is it unreasonable for me to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

When I first joined Mumsnet, I hoped to find a community where mothers and women could uplift and support each other on a variety of topics, especially those concerning parenting, finances, and the cost of living. However, I've noticed a trend where instead of offering encouragement, there's no support and a race to the bottom mentality.

Shouldn't this space be about rallying together to support everyone in the UK? We should be annoyed at the government for creating the cost of living issues and we should push for them to make things better for future generations.

Recently, I read discussions on the cost of living, where some individuals seemed unable to empathise with those facing financial struggles. Some suggested that just because they did it that it shouldn’t be a problem for those on above average salaries and it is simply a “choice”. Even suggestions of just “relocating to cheaper areas” without considering the complexities of individual circumstances, simply because they did it several years ago. It's disheartening to see dismissive attitudes towards those who are genuinely struggling, whether they're living on a tight budget or facing high living costs in the South due to personal ties.

If we, as women, continue to tear each other down rather than lifting each other up, how can we ever hope to bring about positive change? Let's try to foster a culture of support and understanding.

Ah the weekly ‘why is everyone so mean’ thread.

I haven't been around that long, but frequently when old zombie threads from 2010 are accidentally brought up on what would now be quite a hostile discussion, I'm like, 'damn, everyone's being pretty nice on this zombie thread!' 😂

Good point - I missed it because it's a slight variation on the usual one about how everyone's suddenly turned nasty.

I don't think anyone on here has said it's okay to "rip people to shreds".

But people's definition of rude and unpleasant is always going to be different - what one person sees as nasty will be what another sees as robust or honest.

I dunno. I feel like nobody wants to take any responsibility for the choices they've made any more and just want to wallow in self pity. Also nobody wants to hear that they actually might not have made good choices.

This - well put & rest of post was good too.

However I do also find it depressingly right wing also. There is a general sense of every woman for herself - no real acknowledgement that we have any innate responsibility towards each other as human beings

I really disagree with this - actually i think mnet has a strong left wing contingent, people who are passionate supporters of state healthcare and education, and recognise the need for centralised state run services, many many people who feel its important those with disabilities and SEN are protected and supported.

What isn't tolerated, is people coming on here expecting to dependent wholly on others for everything, but refusing to ever try to do anything to solve a problem for themselves. So people looking for someone else to tell them there's a magic to wand to fix it all, if they:

• have issues (eg tight family finances, or wanting to leave a shit husband) that would be solved by seeking work but don't want to.....
• being unhappy about a lifestyle element (weight, diet, exercise level etc) but shooting down any suggestion that involves actually doing anything about it
• struggling with some parenting aspect (difficult DC behaviour, potential sen/disability, social probs etc) but dismissing all ideas/suggestions of things to do about it

Absolutely.

Nope. Disagree- to an extent. Certain boards, should have only support, but AIBU, etc. nope. I'm not going to slavishly 'be nice' and support silly decisions and choices.

I'm totally with you on this OP

A lot of rose tinted spectacles about the site.

It was horribly cliquey. I joined just as Mumsnet Royalty were on their way out.

Now it seems that you get responses based on what you say, not your username/fanclub. I suspect that winds some posters up.

Exactly. It is a bit more creative this time, though.

I think what I’m trying to express is people on here seem so ready to put someone down and fail to understand that some of this isn’t due to their choices but due to bad decisions that are made out of our control!

Ok so im trying to say this kindly.

There will always be things beyond your control.

There will also be things you can control and must control, that can mitigate the damage of the things you can't control

On here people can lack sympathy if the things beyond your control are having a big impact, if its at least partly because you did not or will not do any of the things you CAN control to lessen the impact.

But the whole point is that it's been happening for years, since the COL crisis started, before that even, but it was aimed at a 'lower' demographic.

But now because it's affecting people who maybe had that attitude in the past there's calls for support or everyone pulling together, let's not put each other down, it was very much an attitude of you are in this situation because of the choices you've made, so change those choices or stop complaining.

Now it's covering a different demographic and the narrative has changed from being bad choices to choices out of your control and everyone should pull together and support each other.

The point I'm making is that the reasons that people of all demographics may be struggling are the same, they have been since this started, but there was an attitude of it being people at fault rather than out of our control to some extent, before it got bad enough to affect people on middle incomes.

I don't doubt people are struggling on all types of wages, and I'm seeing the same reasons for someone on a low wage struggling being given, for someone on a middle wage, but if you're on a lower wage then it was your choices plain and simple, if you're on a middle wage then it's choices out of your control.

It's either one or the other, you can't apply different 'rules' and then expect to have the support offered that you told yourself others didn't deserve, because the reasons are the same.

And by you I mean generally, society wise, not personally.

I do think that everyone deserves some sort of support, because a great many are struggling but the issue is that lack of support and the attitude that it's of your own making only seems to be a problem now it's affecting the middle to higher earners, and when this is pointed out you've got a chip on your shoulder, a crab in a bucket mentality and told it's not a race to the bottom. That you're jealous, that you can't stand seeing people have more than you - for me it's not that, it's the hypocrisy of expecting sympathy and understanding and calling other people for not delivering when it's never worked the other way around.

As I said, as a society, we're reaping what we've sewed.

Hehe, indeed.

I might start doing this. Plopping onto a thread declaring that I don't have time to read it and that people should explain things to me.

But then, how would I find the time to read people's replies?

Baffling.

Brexit was the ultimate demonstration of crabs in a bucket mentality. I heard a guy up the road say to his son ‘we’ve got no money, so it’s time for others to suffer too’. What kind of attitude is that? and to teach your children that type of thinking too.

Sorry, at the risk of being a complete pedantic twat, it's sow...reap what you sow.

Did you bollocks.

Probably an autocarrot. Really not worth calling out.

I had no idea what crab bucket mentality is.

I think if you use in opening post it is easier to explain than have thread derailed.

Obviously everyone can google but why?

Don't be so surprised. On the morning after the referendum, I remember walking to work and passing an elderly woman saying almost exactly this to her daughter/adult woman she was with.

I have been on here for 17 years, it didn’t have such a diluted demographic posting in the past. There have always been intelligent women posting about current affairs, feminism etc. I.e subjects that have nothing to do with being a parent but on the whole it was quite obvious that they were still Parents. It was definitely more supportive than it is now and more relatable as a result of the above.

It feels as though people feel threatened by 'other people'.

So if someone does well you need to drag them down to make yourself feel better. If someone's doing badly (in their opinion) you drag them down by telling them you had it worse and managed to cope. Or others are worse off and don't you know how fortunate you are. People see threats from other people, rather than support, community, humanity, kinship, solidarity, empathy. The divisiveness of conversations serves to split people apart rather than bring people together.

I'm not enjoying it at all. However some of the smaller, less busy boards are full of lovely supportive people hiding away from the fighting on AIBU and Chat. I find the conversations on the smaller boards more wholesome and helpful.

I think this is spot on.

I think you are spot on!

I think I need to spend more time exploring the smaller boards for support.

I appreciate that everyone has different opinions etc, but I think the delivery on these main boards comes across so abrupt and everyone seems on the defence and attack mode.

See NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting one of the best things about MN is that you get to engage with intelligent women who won't just blindly support other women on, well, anything!

The beauty of this is that you come here with a gut feeling or a question as a starting point (I mean the general you, not the specific) and by the end of it have refined your argument and articulated it even better.

I don't tend to post personal dilemmas under this name but I know that I have come here with a general feeling of 'this isn't sitting right with me'. There will always be replies that make me 🙄 but I will also always come away in a better position and with a greater understanding.

I've had some excellent advice and excellent discussions with people over the years.

If there’s a thread where the OP is struggling with feelings of envy, you invariably get posters coming in to tell her that the focus of the envy is probably secretly miserable, and imagining all sorts of ways in which her life (and 9/10 it’s a her) is awful and nothing to envy. This is presented as supportive to the OP, as if feeling good about your own life is dependent on someone else’s being awful.

That’s always struck me as being supremely fucked up.

and yes, the whole ‘I suffered, so why shouldn’t you?/ I loathe you because you’ve got more than I have’.

I don’t believe in blindly supporting women because they’re women, but I do believe there’s a lot of tearing people down for less noble reasons than them actually doing anything harmful.