To think that nice people don't win?

[malificent7]

Warning...depressing post about human nature.
For example in the work place. For example I try to be smiley and kind at work. When a colleague was bullied out. ( also a nice man) I didn't join in with any of the bitching.
I personally felt he was mobbed as his English wasn't very good.
My boss favours loud, bossy people who let everyone know how great they are....I need to cultivate this.
In my personal life, being a people oleaser has made me a target for abusers.
I really have concluded that kindness is a weakness and peoole percieve it as such.
At work it is best either to be feared ( I am not scary) or just mega assertive to get ahead.
In your oersonal life, it is best just to be assertive.
I am so glad dd is very confident and assertive...no idea how...she didn't get it from me.

You can find work environments where the culture is supportive and productive rather than aggressive and cold. Unfortunately they do have lower staff turnover as a result. Take your skills and strengths to a place where they're recognised.

@FrippEnos

I agree with you . When I was bullied in a workplace I was told by a long serving member of staff to stand up for myself because no one in here is going to help you . She was right . I have found that if it doesn't concern or affect others then they don't care and some people will stir the pot . I learned to stamp on trouble quickly and-report it to senior management by starting a paper trail . It sends out a message to others that you are not to be messed with .

Some people survive by keeping themselves to themselves and keeping their heads down , out of sight and out of mind and avoiding trouble or get out when trouble starts .

I'd love to find a really solitary job with no people interaction...sadly I don't think they exist.

Definitely this. I was bullied awfully in one workplace when I was unfortunate enough to run into the same person who had bullied me in a previous role years before. Not only did no one stand up for me, but they joined in as they didn't want to become the target! It was all done in a very subtle underhand way - not including me in conversation, turning their back on me, withholding information that was vital to the role, sneering every time I spoke, moving away if I say down next to them... God knows what made up stories the bully had been telling them. This was a group of grown women in a professional role! I tried to ignore it at first and be my usual helpful friendly self, believing that they'd see through the bullies lies eventually and that I was actually a nice person. But it didn't stop and I had to leave in the end for the sake of my mental health. But can still feel the palpable fear of walking into that workplace every day knowing I was entirely ostracized and loathed. And the unfairness of it all - that a woman with an axe to grind for no reason at all could use her charm and charisma to turn a while group against someone!

Not unreasonable to think this. I was well into adulthood before it crashed around me that life isn’t fair and that the bad guys sometimes win. Feels really naive looking back. Sometimes entire workplaces are set up that reward toxic behaviours. In general though, I do think it’s possible to be good and kind and successful.

Being a people pleaser isn't nice.

I think vulnerable people with poor boundaries often tell themselves they're being nice, because at least that's some sort of consolation for being shat on, but actually there's nothing very nice about it.

I'd recommend Emma Reed Turrell's book Please Yourself. You can be polite, respectful and amiable while still maintaining boundaries.

Cleaning , work from home , van driver.

I think a lot of bullying starts because you are a threat in some way or the bully wants something you have such as your working hours or your department etc . Some bullies are lazy and entitled and react badly when people push back on them . They are good at blaming others .

Sadly I agree.

Oh yeah there are loads

Personally, I think you can be nice and assertive but if you are nice be prepared for people thinking that your niceness is weakness and they definitely will attempt to take advantage of you. Not just in work but in your personal life as well.
One other trait I think is important if you are nice is to understand the game, know how to play it and make sure every decision you make does not disadvantage you.

Keep yourself firmly at the centre of your universe and routinely remove those who mistakenly believe that they should be at the centre of your world.

As rude as claiming people have low emotional intelligence based on a comment on the internet that has no context 🤣

Perceptions of assertiveness and rudeness are also subjective. So are people's perceptions of straight talking.

Some people have a better tolerance for it depending on their own personality, experience etc. I've met people whose class straight talking as simply not agreeing with them. Or who find assertiveness rude. I know people who find to idea of saying they don't like something scandalous.

It's nuanced. But obviously someone with such low emotional intelligence like myself wouldn't possibly understand.

@JudgeJudging or as rude as telling a stranger who's shared their experience "they have a warped view of human nature". Looks like your main contribution to the thread is to criticise anyone who's had an experience unlike yours. Not the strongest display of emotional intelligence eh 😘

Don't want upset MIL and make things difficult for them.

If you can’t face upsetting your MIL now, I’m wondering how you are going to manage with your previously stated commitment to cutting the couple out of your life after today? It doesn’t seem realistic or achievable if you are prioritising your MILs needs.

I think at one point we just need to say no to people pleasing and putting the needs of others ahead of our own.

If you don’t that’s fine , I get people handle things differently, but it sounds like you’ll be the one left with the resentment.

Like many above said - people pleasing/self sacrificing people don't win. Nice but assertive/confident types do.

I also think that being persistently self-sacrificing is not the same thing as being "nice" and is not a virtue but a character flaw.

I get told I'm condescending on here for being nice and I am nice. I feel bad for the posters who feel supportive is condescending- their social circle and support networks must be absolutely fucking diabolical if someone taking time out their day to offer a piece of logical advice or words of support, or even just a chatty reply is "condescending" then fuck me, their lives must be shit.

I'm short, chubby with loads of curly hair and I'm aware I look a bit like a cabbage patch doll, but I'm also someone who did kick boxing for years, so I'm massively underestimated 😂

Sorry didn't reply sooner love, didn't see your reply!

Agree that being passive is more of a problem than being nice. As long as you are assertive you should be ok.

But I agree a lot of people will take advantage of they sense weakness. It’s like you almost have to train them not to take the piss. It doesn’t take much usually, just answering back or a raised voice, but it’s still depressing.

This is why I gave them their wedding day as they did to us (thought we had made up after that. We took them out for lunch with their kids to 'say sorry' thought it was all behind us). Then Easter 2023 they just flat out ignored me at the table, they then never said hello or goodbye to me. My DH says they are rude but doesn't want to upset his mum and I don't either so by just ignoring them and staying away from them from here on out we both get what we want. They don't get to see me and I don't have to put up with their cuntishness and get a day to myself.

DH told me it's actually his parents money. So at least it wasn't out our pockets.

I think nice and kind are overrated, especially when they behaviours expected by women for the benefit of others.

I go for consistent and reasonable behaviour instead. I very rarely agree to anything instantly preferring to think things over, or to say no if I know what is being asked is unreasonable.

Some people may not like me because of this - but it means I can get on with my job to the best of my ability because I am not doing other people's work or taking on more than I can do.

In personal life it means people do not ask me for favours or loans because the likely answer is no.

My life is peaceful, both at work and home because I know my boundaries and stick to them.

In personal life it means people do not ask me for favours or loans because the likely answer is no.

I'm all for boundaries and loans are usually a no-no but favours? For family and friends? I think that's quite sad really as the whole point of interpersonal relationships is to help and support one another, as long as there's reciprocity of course. If a close family member asks for a reasonable favour you're not a pushover if you say yes, it's just a decent thing to do!

I think what you need op are boundaries.

I'm a very principled, ‘servant hearted’ person, I play by the rules, I’m honest and kind. I’ll go out of my way to be smiley and helpful and I believe in civility and being a good neighbour. But equally I don’t take any shit. I don’t let people talk or treat me like shit. I don’t accept disrespect or shitty behaviour.

People only treat you how you let them.

Maybe not an answer here but my work place is full of the bosses friends and family meaning they get all the best tasks and are favoured it pisses me off