To think that nice people don't win?

[malificent7]

Warning...depressing post about human nature.
For example in the work place. For example I try to be smiley and kind at work. When a colleague was bullied out. ( also a nice man) I didn't join in with any of the bitching.
I personally felt he was mobbed as his English wasn't very good.
My boss favours loud, bossy people who let everyone know how great they are....I need to cultivate this.
In my personal life, being a people oleaser has made me a target for abusers.
I really have concluded that kindness is a weakness and peoole percieve it as such.
At work it is best either to be feared ( I am not scary) or just mega assertive to get ahead.
In your oersonal life, it is best just to be assertive.
I am so glad dd is very confident and assertive...no idea how...she didn't get it from me.

No nice people DO NOT WIN.
We live in a society that upholds bullying and celebrates bullies.
People are determined that cunts get the biggest say. I don't know what to do about it.

For me it's to avoid trouble, I don't care if it makes the person like me, the main driver is they leave me alone.

I have been working on it & sought help & am much better at asserting myself nowadays.

I disagree completely. Because I'm a nice, open, honest person I have a lot of friends and acquaintances and that has made my life so much better than it ever could have been had I been calculating, harsh and a bully. Almost all the jobs I have got thoughout my life has been through people I know (work in the arts), my kids have gained lots of friends because I have a big network and they are now also starting to benefit from my network work wise as they are becoming adults.

I definitely feel like I have won in life and I can sleep easy at night because I haven't taken other people out on the way.

At work it is best either to be feared ( I am not scary) or just mega assertive to get ahead

Not true. You can be kind and helpful but also have clear boundaries and make sure other peopleknow these. People at work know I will help whenever they need it but they also know not to mess with me.

One guy was a known bully and one day tried it on me via email. I reported him to my manager and his manager with the clear message that I treat him with professional courtesy and respect and I expect the same in return and I would not be communicated with in such a disrespectful way. He never did it again.

Just here to say assertiveness in my experience doesn't make you popular.

But agree, it makes people think twice about crossing you.

As an assertive person, people are forever trying to coach me about my "straight talking". You just can't win!

This. Being kind doesn't mean you can't stick up for yourself.

I'd say there's a difference between "nice" and overly passive/unassertive (and I say this as someone who is probably both!). Some people do try and trample your boundaries if you aren't very assertive. Maybe try and firm up your boundaries so that you can be nice AND assertive/boundaried. The books "When I say no I feel guilty" by manual J Smith and "The book of boundaries: set the limits that will set you free" by Melissa Urban are both great places to start.

If you're not going to see them again and are prepared to cause family ructions fgs take the £50 out the card now.Why be a doormat, there's absolutely no reason to just give them £50 when they behaved so badly at your wedding.

This is a great debate from Channel 4 between Jordan Peterson and Laura Kuenssberg worth watching if you have 30 minutes.

It is about gender pay gap which touches on a woman's more gentle approach vs a man's more aggressive approach which Jordan says gets them further and higher paid:

You can be kind and assertive. I like to hope I am both most of the time. I can hold my own and have no time for meaness.

These are good examples .

Not joining in with bullying doesn’t make you a nice person. It makes you a passive enabler.

A good person would stand up for the person being bullied and not just sit there patting themselves on the back for not joining in.

That's because instead of confronting him head on you went over his head to management and left a paper trail. I used to confront head on and it got me nowhere. I've learned to go over peoples heads and let management deal with them .

The thing is, noone can prove it was racist bullying.
Initially, a concern was raised about his standard of English ( I know because I was there). Next thing I knew he was being mansged out. So is it racist really?
People still make snide remarks about his level of competence now...i just thought the way it was done was awful .

There's a difference between 'assertive' and 'rude', though, and the people who generally pride themselves on their 'straight-talking' generally have low emotional intelligence and no ear for social nuance. It's perfectly possible to be assertive while being pleasant.

People won't stand up for you in the workplace. You are in your own as people don't want to get involved as they don't want to be next . A bitter lesson I learned the hard way .

Why did they employ him in the first place if his standard of English was a concern ?

In many roles you do need to be understood by others. Was that the case with this guy?

Spoken like a person that has never stood up for anyone.

All standing up for others does is put you in the firing line whilst the person that you stood up for scurries away and hides leaving you in the mire.

Its all find if you can stand up as a group against it but even then the bully will just reverse it all and make themselves the victim.

You have a very warped view of human nature.

Or its my experience of when I have stood up for others.

Well, it's not mine. I think you've been very unlucky, or/ or worked/socialised in some really unpleasant settings.

I well may have but that wouldn't be an excuse to get personal.

There will always be a diverse mix of personalities in the work place.
It can be extremely wearing. I just say now "l don't want to get involved" in the endless gossip and drama. I remain professional and polite, l stay well away from the energy drainers. I refuse to change how l am, to fit in with others.
Another member of staff complimented me recently saying l very pleasant to be around.

I absolutely agree OP. Life has taught me the same. I've just come to realise that you can be an absolute bitch in life and you'll get through situations completely unscathed, whereas be nice and friendly and helpful and you'll either be bullied, treated like a doormat or treated with no regard or respect. Horrible people do not face consequences and there's no such thing as ' karma' so you're better off saving yourself the trouble of being the nice guy, and jumping on board with the other takers and users in life...