To think that nice people don't win?

[malificent7]

Warning...depressing post about human nature.
For example in the work place. For example I try to be smiley and kind at work. When a colleague was bullied out. ( also a nice man) I didn't join in with any of the bitching.
I personally felt he was mobbed as his English wasn't very good.
My boss favours loud, bossy people who let everyone know how great they are....I need to cultivate this.
In my personal life, being a people oleaser has made me a target for abusers.
I really have concluded that kindness is a weakness and peoole percieve it as such.
At work it is best either to be feared ( I am not scary) or just mega assertive to get ahead.
In your oersonal life, it is best just to be assertive.
I am so glad dd is very confident and assertive...no idea how...she didn't get it from me.

I've not really had any jobs outside of the health care sector but you have to really take no prisoners to avoid being bullied.
I would make a point of befriending the more shy staff members so they had someone in their corner. It's absolutely brutal care homes for bullying, if you're new it's like drinking uninvited at the same table as the peaky blinders 😂
Last person who tried to bully me in work I made look a massive twat (I was the new girl) in the staff room and I really did make a point of being full cunt to her, like punching the biggest bully in the playground mentality and after that she was tried to be my best mate.
It happens constantly, even on here, say something nice and someone has to quote you with some level of obnoxious response, but if you reply and are like a dog with a bone they don't do it again to you until you name change and the cycle starts 😂
I'm a extremely kind but extremely formidable should anyone push me to find out. You can't just be nice or horrid, you have to balance it out to get anywhere I've found and I do alright.

Being nice ≠ being a people pleaser. If you insist on behaving like a doormat, that is how people will treat you, particularly at work. You need to stand up for yourself & your interests without alienating people or being a dick.

You may be friendly with some of your colleagues, but in general your colleagues are not your real friends and they are looking after their own interests not yours. That’s the reality of the workplace.

t happens constantly, even on here, say something nice and someone has to quote you with some level of obnoxious response, but if you reply and are like a dog with a bone they don't do it again to you until you name change and the cycle starts 😂

Lol so true, I remember once on where I made a very harmless (and supportive) post about mental health in reply to something an OP said.

Two posters tried to ridicule me and call my post “pointless”, I didn’t notice their responses at first but when I did the following day, I went back and kept challenging their replies very robustly explaining my post , pointing out the unnecessary unpleasantness of their responses and demanding they tell me what harm my post caused, and they both backed down.

Edit to change incorrect tag: I agree @Lwrenn it really is about striking that balance. I appear quite pleasant and non-threatening, so sometimes people underestimate me but they soon realise that I’m not a walkover at the first sign of any disrespect from them and then they back down usually.

I find people tend to follow your lead, so if you appear to put others first all of the time, they will treat you accordingly.
When you put people first all of the time, you are merely teaching them that you come second.
You need to ask yourself why you are a people pleaser. Most people pleasers are not that way simply to please people, but to get a need met. Identify what the need is and work on meeting it yourself.

Yep 100% true. DH brother and his fiancee are getting married today. Didnt get us a wedding present on our day and she dressed in black. Of course we have to give them £50 for their present. Both absolutely rude and massive cunts to me because of a long backstory. We've had to appease their nasty behaviour and is always excused by MIL as "oh you know what they're like".
We have a to be all sunshine and rainbows for them but once today is over I'm putting boundaries in and never seeing them or putting up with their shite again. Next time I see them will be at funerals.

@Jaboody I’m curious - Why do you have to give them £50 if you clearly don’t want to? Why bother being “sunshine and rainbows” if you dislike their behaviour and don’t intend to see them again?

I'm the same op, not remotely scary, very quiet, kind type person. People are often shocked when I do stand up for myself, I've literally seen them do a double take a couple of times. I have worked in a team of loud bossy people and absolutely hated it, they were insufferable. Luckily I was only there two days a week so I could cope with it but if I had to do it full time I probably would have looked for another job. Your boss doesn't sound great either. It's not universally true that you need that attitude to be successful at work, I know some very successful people who are absolutely lovely. I think its your particular work place that's probably the issue.

I have a job lined up elsewhere anyway! So thrilled. But I want to do well in the next job and rise through the ranks...something i've never done before.

Because we have to be nice and be the bigger people....again. for DH and arsehole BIL mum.

When a colleague was bullied out. ( also a nice man) I didn't join in with any of the bitching.

I find it sad that the barometer for niceness is not joining in on bitching on someone for whom English isn’t their first language.

Did no one stand up for him?

Kindness is underestimated. We all remember when someone is kind. Not the same as people pleasing as PP have said. But nobody says that they were a pleasure to know because they bullied people at work when you are at their funeral. Bullies are deeply insecure people and usually very unhappy. Don't loose your empathy and kindness, we need it more now than ever, but set boundaries and asert them.

I disagree and think niceness can get you pretty far, I'm in a job where stakeholder management is critical and being nice works with most people. That said, being nice DOESN'T mean being a push over. I am assertive, I push back, I deliver difficult news, and I advocate for myself. This is important to not only put boundaries in place, but to build respect.

Noone stood up for him as we feared being the next target.

I did try and point him the direction of some help though and told him I understood what was happening.

Well, stop the people-pleasing, then. Be helpful, but assertive, and establish yourself as someone who isn’t a pushover from the outset. It’s perfectly possible to be kind yet boundaried.

It's not always 'wanting to be popular'.

I'm a people pleaser because of CPTSD from childhood abuse & late diagnosed ND.

I don't do assertive very convincingly so I've worked on being slightly manipulative disarming

No, but you’d acknowledge, surely, that whatever its cause, its a way of trying to ensure a certain set of positive responses from other people, and that it’s not healthy?

It is not one or the other people don't work that way

I think successful people at work are strategic . They keep their heads down at first and work out how the place operates, and who are the top guns and who are the scapegoats . They then cultivate friendships and slowly arse lick their way up . They are very good at planting seeds and scapegoating others when things go wrong . In short they have the gift of the gab and can manipulate others. I watched a 16 year old fresh out of school do it . Within six months management were eating out of his hand and believing everything she said . Incredible.

So true.

I'm teaching my DCs to have sharp elbows.

Wait. You witnessed potentially racist behaviour and didn’t do anything? Don’t you have a whistleblowing policy?

I’m lovely at work but if you start to be disrespectful I will call you out. I had a supplier that ignored my emails so I called him up and told him it was unacceptable in an assertive way. Don’t tell me I’ll send you an update by x date and I’ll put in a meeting and then not follow it up.

I was definitely a push over with friends/relationships but I’m learning.

I think it starts early on in a work place , especially if you are new . People often test the water to see how far they can go and will try and dump stuff on you . Sometimes if you show you're ambitious and have ability right at the start it can ruffle feathers . It's best to try and go under the radar at first and then slowly begin to emerge.

Where does it end though? You’re feeling compelled to act “nice” to people you seemingly feel quite resentful of /negative towards because of your MIL and husband .

So why do you think you’ll be able to stand up for yourself in the future and refuse contact with that couple?

It’s a tricky situation but I think generally it’s about laying boundaries as early and clearly as possible. The more you keep people pleasing / meeting everyone’s else needs ahead of you the harder it is to break the pattern and expectations of people.

And I say all this as a recovering people pleaser/total mug .

As I mentioned upthread, I spent hundreds on my friends 30th the year after she didn’t spend a penny on mine. And she only remembered it was my 30th birthday in the evening and had the cheek to call and say “I nearly forgot, I’d have felt so guilty if I hadn’t called . I’m so pleased I remembered” thus making it all about her.

So it’s not like like I’ve not been there myself but I think at some point we all need to start taking responsibility for some of the dynamics we entertain.

Btw, I agree with with pp that it’s a shame no one spoke out against the racism in work. That jumped out at me too when I read the OP. That is why “nice” isn't always synonymous with being kind or a person of good character or integrity.