For DH to insist on vaginal birth not ceasarean

[Anguish]

Asking for a friend. Why would he care either way? She has a low pain tolerance and doesn't want to experience the most painful thing that can happen to a woman.

EDIT: He's absolutely lovely and basically a perfect partner in every conceivable way, which is why it's slightly out of character.

If women were designed to give birth why did so many women die and of course still do?

As an aside why the assumption that 'natural' is automatically better? No, it's not. It's neutral at best. As an acquaintance once said to me 'death and dog's dirt are both natural and we humans do all we can to avoid them'!

Is any medicine or any form of civilisation 'natural'? Should we still be living in caves and dying from infected cuts?

But apparently it's ok to be on the oh so natural internet, telling other women that their decisions are ridiculous and they shouldn't be allowed to make them.

It's very strange to me (it's not - pure shameless misogyny) that the medical profession are by and large (or at least were) fine and dandy with prescribing off label drugs to minors that affect/ prevent 'natural' processes like puberty and further later prescribing powerful cross sex hormones, removing breasts and penis etc ... but a woman in agony in childbirth is refused painkillers or a woman who wants to be sterilised is refused it because 'she might change her mind'.

Ah yes, this is because as, @LorlieS, helpfully reminds us below, women make ridiculous decisions. Apparently it is 'a fact', so it must be true. You have been warned; women, know your limits.

Not really as a woman really wanting a CS is a reason for it not to be avoided. If I had said to my obstetrician “I am very happy to give birth vaginally, my pregnancy has been complication free and my birth is likely to be the same but I want a CS simply to watch Wimbledon” (as you suggest happened…), my particular obstetrician would have discussed the possibility of having a vaginal birth. It would have been a different story if I simply said “I do not want a vaginal birth.”

@Irisginger Some women do make ridiculous and selfish decisions. Not all. Some.

Your friend's husband isn't the one giving birth, so it's not his decision.

That said, I have had both a C-section and a vaginal birth, and I personally found the vaginal birth much easier.

Admittedly, the C-section was following a failed induction, so I did experience contraction pain for a few hours before I had an epidural, and I was pretty exhausted by the time I had the C-section. I also had an epidural when I gave birth vaginally, which meant I only felt the contractions whilst in early labour and not for what probably would have been the most painful part. So if I were comparing a nice calm ELCS after a decent night's sleep against a difficult vaginal birth without pain relief, I would probably feel differently. But for me personally, the vaginal birth with the epidural once things started to heat up was a much more enjoyable experience.

If your friend is worried about pain, she should consider getting a lightly dosed epidural once she is in active labour. The women I know who have done this have had pretty positive experiences. If having an ELCS is what she really wants, she is of course entitled to request one. But it is not pain free. The pain comes afterwards, when the incision is healing.

Either way, your friend's husband needs to butt out. He needs to understand that C-sections are a perfectly valid way of giving birth, and in some situations they are life saving. I really hope he is not going to be unsupportive if your friend decides to attempt a vaginal birth and then ends up having to have a C-section anyway for medical reasons, which could easily happen.

There is no field of human decision making that is free of cognitive biases.

The question here seems to be more who is primarily impacted by the consequences of decision making, especially at the level of bodily autonomy, and what that should confer in terms of roles in decision making.

That’s just some people in general.

Doesn’t mean that choices should be taken away, especially when it comes to a woman’s own body.

In your opinion.

That doesn't make your opinion relevant to anyone else.

@GabriellaMontez Of course. I don't agree with women smoking and drinking in pregnancy, for example. Up to them if they make that choice though.

Some women choose to insist on home births and to refuse all medical intervention to the point their babies are put in danger or even harmed.

I don't agree with their choice.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle Me neither!

Really? You were boasting on here about your long and painful labour.

And the choice of "boasting" is deliberate.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle They were all long and painful labours. That's nothing to do with increasing the risk for my baby!! The safest place for me to birth my baby was at home (also taking into account we were in full lockdown). Fact.

Her choice but surely a c section has the most lasting pain

How to tell me you haven't read the thread, without telling me.

It isn't a "fact" It was your preference.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle With what was going on in hospitals at the time, it was definitely safer!

No uterus, no opinion.

But maybe he's thinking "nature designed it that way for a reason", and why do additional interventions in the form of a major abdominal surgery, when nature has already literally worked it out?

Because nature is a bitch who doesn't know what she's doing which is why maternal and infant death are so common in unassisted, unsupervised births.

Angry lions and active volcanoes are natural.

If he wants to push it out his vagina let him crack on.

A lifespan of 40 years (if you're lucky) is also natural!

@LorlieS

what exactly is so bad about a woman being selfish sometimes?