Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

Same reason as men invented MGTOW...but ours is not incel related nor for malicious reasons. Its about pulling together to support each other, not from a damaging stance, unlike MGTOW brigade.

Op is making sweeping generalisations and not backing ‘her’ argument up with any references.

Just a goady thread rather than someone wanting a genuine discussion.

When did obsession with drinking wine become a toxic femininity trait? And who decided it Op? You? 😂

As per my previous point the only person here displaying toxic femininity is the OP. It is the reinforcement of gender stereotypes through behaviour such as keeping women in a subservient role.

Breastfeeding is pushed by the WHO and NHS.

You say you find the sexual freedom of women has gone too far, do you think this of just women or men too?

I don’t think a lot of people think the gender pay gap is some big conspiracy. It’s a tool for a discussion point, why are there more women in lower paid roles, how can we make sure both sexes have the opportunity to take on higher paid roles etc.

The sisterhood isn't a thing. It's just another tactic to control the behaviour of women.

Perhaps if you haven't experienced the sisterhood, you should look at your own behaviour and attitudes. It is of course entirely possible that you've been unlucky, but I would say it's the exception rather than the norm.

Isn't a man who is financially stable, hardworking, fit, father material, handy, over 6 foot tall & drives nowadays a pretty rare commodity though?

That's the ideal goal for many women & it's hard for many men to tick all those boxes

How can you not say men like that are a rare commodity these days, when you hear women complaining that "men are trash" these days?

Yep.
OP Definitely of the Male species...and definitely goading under the guise of being female and oblivious to the obvious disadvantages of being a woman in a world thats led by men. If she were a woman, she would know these answers.

I think she has seen the video of JP disputing the patriarchy and gender pay gap by saying it is caused by women choosing lower paid jobs.

I've seen plenty of women here lament about having no female friends though

Not that Mumset is indicative of real life, but it's certainly not an uncommon complaint here

🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😂

A whole series of confused posts from the OP but this took the biscuit. breastfeeding is nothing to do with femininity, breastfeeding is a female act. Yes there is pressure from medical professionals to breastfeed and yes some women are very smug about it but my experience is actually that we live in a formula culture and breastfeeding past about 6 months is seen as a bit weird and perverse. I bf until 15 months and apart from friends from BF group most people thought I was a bit odd because the norm is to FF. but femininity doesn’t really come into it.

femininity describes the way society pressures and encourages women to behave. So yes, I do believe femininity is toxic. This is a key element of feminism. It does not follow that women are toxic.

in the same way: toxic masculinity describes the negative way that men are encouraged and empowered to behave.

the social system of masculinity and femininity is called “gender” by feminism and is a key structure in women’s oppression. Women are oppressed by femininity. It’s why femininity involves such effort of hair removal, high heels, make up, etc.

you were wrong from the very beginning by the way: men and women are not equal.

You're totally giving yourself away now. Move out of your Ma's and get a life!

I'm going to stop replying to the "I must be a man" comments because I've already said I'm not

Confused why you think there is no social pressure to breastfeed though!

Maybe in UK it's different but where I am it's more considered the norm

& as no man can breastfeed isn't breastfeeding an image of the feminine?

If there was an artwork & a woman was breastfeeding, would that not be seen as some depiction of the feminine?

You understand that breastfeeding is the normal way for human babies to be fed don't you? Like that's how our species evolved.

where are you from? And how old?

and I definitely don’t believe you are a woman.

Youre definitely a male.
Btw i am /do all those things bar being 6ft, im financially stable, fit enough, do all diy, etc etc. all done on my own.
Who says thats the ideal is those things you mention? Men who are rejected, thats who. They are usually rejected for other reasons, their personality.

Men can be trash comment is just ridiculous generalisation

Women are not a homogenous group. There are generally similar traits in the type of men they want but your strange little list isn’t the ideal for every single one. Not every woman wants children. Not every woman is particularly arsed about height. Not every woman cares about driving (especially if you live in a walkable city/place with good transport links).

Also this will blow your mind but gay women exist! Who don’t want any sort of man!

Your reductive, stereotypical and heteronormative arguments such as this one aren’t giving you much credence.

Well I can't speak to the reasons, or lack thereof in those cases. Not having read the threads.

I'm from Australia & in my 40s

A depiction of a female. Not femininity: just like giving birth is not “feminine” it is something only females can do. all mammals do it and they don’t have masculinity and femininity!

Cliques and the supposed "ostracism" they practice, 9 times out of 10, is literally "women choosing who they want to associate with". The monsters. Men also choose who they want to associate with, and can be ruthlessly unkind and even violent to other men they perceive to be insufficiently "manly", or even for something as simple as wearing the t-shirt of a rival football team - gang activity is largely male, football hooliganism is almost exclusively a male activity, boys are bullied as much as girls in schools, mainly by other boys.

The patriarchal expectation on women to "be kind" to people they don't like/aren't interested in, and include those people in their social groups/dating pool, is what makes people perceive the simple decision to associate with some people and not others as some sort of toxicity. Misogynists don't like women and girls making choices or foregrounding their own wishes as it undermines the founding requirements of patriarchy - that women exist for other people not themselves.

If "cliques" (friendship groups) are the very worst thing you can lay at the door of "toxic femininity", I think we're still a ways from being done talking about toxic masculinity before this will rise to the top of the "important social problems" list.

Im bowing out of this one. Its goady and anti woman. OP covertly (and overtly) misogynistic trying to get a rise

Quick Google says breastfeeding rates in aus are under 40% by 3 months so you’re talking out of your arse about it being the norm.

Ah it's a bit of fun. A sad little man, on a parenting website, talking absolute shite. Sure you'd have to laugh.

It’s hard for men to have a job, drive, work hard? You have to be fucking joking 😂😂😂😂 if only that was all women had to do 😂😂😂