Toxic femininity?

[JordanPeterson]

If men & women are equal

Then it stands to reason that toxic femininity is a real phenomenon

However it does not seem to be widely acknowledged or permitted to be discussed in society

As a 40 something woman have experienced this phenomenon & read of it here

Examples that spring to mind include:

• Culture of "cliques" which often lead to bullying & ostracising behaviour
• Using tears as a manipulation tactic
• Becoming involved in affairs & being the "other" woman
• Judging others for different life choices (Eg: not having a career, being "broke")
• Hateful behaviour towards those who don't identify with or agree with Feminist agendas
• Focus on appearance (Eg: minimising the risk of botox/plastic surgery to others, reluctance to form friendships with those they perceive as "daggy" - see cliques)
• Obsession towards drinking wine as a personality trait

Now many women do not partake in such negative & socially damaging behaviours

& most of these examples are of toxicity towards other women which is interesting

But that doesn't mean that toxic femininity is not real, does it?

Are we just our own worst enemy?

AIBU to find the culture of toxic femininity worthy of discussion?

But don't both men & women display aggressive traits?

We just tend to display it in different ways?

Men will resort to physical violence more, but women are also aggressive

We are not all sweetness & light, wouldn't it be wrong to paint all women as being too sweet to hurt a fly? We know that's not true...

If this thread is anything to go by, dripping sarcasm & personal attacks are a way that some women will tend to show aggression

On a side note, you reminded me that the "Be Kind!" agenda could be an example of toxic femininity, as it pushes the idea that us women must always be sweet & mild towards others

Sounds like you’ve got a personal axe to grind with a specific group of women you think are leaving you out, tbh.

’Cliques’ annoys me. Some people make friends with other parents. Same as at work, or anywhere else in life.

You sound a bit intense.

It sounds like you think women not following the stereotype of femininity means they are being toxic.

Toxic femininity would actually be taking "femininity" to the extreme. Like diet culture or plastic surgery culture like others have suggested, and then bullying people who don't fit the stereotypical image of feminine.

'People' all have their faults. And they all display them in various ways. Men just tend to kill more people. Again, as I'm sure you know.

If this thread is anything to go by, dripping sarcasm & personal attacks are a way that some women will tend to show aggression

Assuming everyone here is a woman.

You don’t write like a woman according to a couple of those analyser tools I’ve just checked with. 🤔

I believe men and women can be equally as awful as each and am sick of the constant double standard and 'I am so innocent I am a little female who needs everyone to do my thinking for me and blames everyone else for my bad decisions and don't know how to use my brains and all men are the devil'

but there are 2 points

1. you deliberately picked your username because you have an agenda
2. I have no idea what any of this has to do with 'femininity' and you know that

Yeah and women are sexual beings too, they just display it differently right? Men rape more, but women act inappropriatly too. Same thing eh. There's no difference in that trait in men and women at all. 🙄

If you think sarcasm from a woman is equal to the punch in the face by a man, I dont know what to tell you.

I don't think people on this thread have been playing the 'innocent little woman' tbh. Just reacting to a ridiculous proposition by the OP. She/they are being goady AF imo.

He is being goady af. 😉

I meant on this forum and in normal life not just in this thread

💯

IDK, I don't come across the innocent little woman thing too often tbh. Or ever really. But it would be something I'd run away from/not associate with at all. So not saying it doesn't exist.

Well I am female & as far as I know, you don't need to write a certain style to be a woman

Women don't all talk & type the same way

I think if you close yourself off & only watch liberal news & media sources then yes, it would be easier to believe that only men criticise women but plenty of us out there who disagree with present day feminist rhetoric

I'm not the only one here who is critical of the Feminism board & hides it, am I?

It's interesting that when women's behaviour is critiqued, users here have fallen back on the argument that "it's not women it's people in general" who behave this way

But when examples of men's behaviour are critiqued, it is always attributed to a problem with men, not people in general

Toxic masculinity is the reinforcement of male stereotypes to the detriment of men (and women).

Such as 'man up' when a man is crying or upset.

For women, I'd say toxic femininity is the same. The repetition of the phrase 'you've just had a baby, you're not sick' from female nurses while I was in hospital in severe pain is such an example.

"obsession towards drinking wine" (sic)
That's an example of toxic femininity?
Drinking wine?
Which gender do you think commits the more drink related crimes?.

It feels like this topic maybe a great example of internalised misogyny.

You’re a bloke, you’re fooling no one.

I have no issue talking about some of the problematic behaviours more commonly seen in women, but not with a goady man, pretending to be a woman in the early hours of the morning in the UK, calling themselves Jordan Perterson. JP incidentally would put his point across much better than you have.

You seem to be pretending to misunderstand what "toxic masculinity" is.

If I may summarise for the purposes of this comment, it's the effect on men, and on wider society, of hyper-androgenised behaviours as inculcated into male children and socially incentivised among men in general. The "toxicity" refers to behaviours centred around violence, sexual aggression and excessive competitiveness.

If it has a counterpart in "toxic femininity", that would be founded on stereotyped "feminine" behaviours that girls are taught and women are expected to demonstrate. These behavioural stereotypes are submissive, placatory, cosmetically superficial, maternal, and intended to please men.

I would judge a large chunk of "feminine" conditioning as toxic, but that's because I'm a feminist who doesn't think it's good for women to be conditioned as man-pleasers. The conditioning, however, doesn't lead women to enact mass harm on either sex. Large-scale aggression is antithetical to the construct.

"Masculine" conditioning causes extensive harm to both sexes. It's a feature of this construct, not a bug.

Your OP's merely a list of some things some women do, which you dislike. It doesn't describe a system, just some random personality traits as filtered through the medium of "femininity". The wine drinking's a witty addition, though!

You are being SO disingenuous it's not funny. FWIW I never used the feminism board, AIBU is enough for me. And I have plenty real life experience to know that sexism is alive and well. I'm married to a man, he's not a sexist. I know they're not all sexist. Or violent. But the fact remains, the perpetrator of violence is much, much more likely to be a man.

Peterson

Yes I'm being intentionally provocative!

Is it wrong to even ask the question?

Am over all this Royal discussion & the "I earn $500K a year & feel poor!" threads

There are quite a few threads about say, women being bullied by other mums at school or ostracised in Whatsapp chats, left out of group invitations with the clique

I am not seeing men online complain about this kind of thing...

Is it so bad to wonder if such experiences may be related to a toxic culture with women?

If your point is that both sexes display unwanted behaviours, then you should have said that instead of trying to equate toxic masculinity with femininity.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, men are less inclined to talk about this type of thing?

I dont think you know the difference between female, feminist, and femininity. They are not interchangeable.

Oh yes misogyny at work here.

Men don't behave this way so if women do it it must be toxic femininity.